John Wesley Norton's BOOMCAST
Cinephiles Unite! John Wesley Norton of Boomstick Entertainment has worked in the film industry for over 20 years and has always wanted to create a podcast that he would want to listen to. This is it. The BOOMCAST tackles film discussion in numerous informative and entertaining ways. If you're a film junkie, then you've just found your next fix.
John Wesley Norton's BOOMCAST
#43 - THE COMIC BOOK SHOW: DC CHARACTERS #3
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Long time reader and comic book expert SCOTT GRENKE joins me once again to discuss comic book characters from the DC Universe. On this show the six topics we discuss are: BAT GIRL, HEAT WAVE, THE DOOM PATROL, GIGANTA, THE SECRET SOCIETY OF SUPER VILLAINS and VIGILANTE! This is a wild one, so check it out!
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Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Boomcast. What a special show or series of shows we are about to undertake right now. Because uh we are going to do something that everybody and their brother has already done, which is a Friday the 13th retrospective. Uh we're not plowing a new field here, fellas. No, no, we're not. With me tonight is Friday the 13th film expert Ben Lewandowski. How you doing, Ben? Good. And Pocus Pocus lover, John Shifley. Oh, hell yeah. But he's seen the Friday the 13th movies. You're kind of a fan. I've seen a few of these. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10They made they made a couple of these, right?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, there's a there's a few. I've I've been listening just as a prep, but it was kind of like hunting for information. I listened to a few podcasts that dealt with this kind of exact same thing, but they're not us. And uh, we're gonna attempt to do the best Friday the 13th retrospective that has ever been done, and I think we can do it. But I gotta tell you, fellas, I had a pretty good time. I've re-watched all of these movies in the last week. Uh I don't recommend cramming all of the Friday 13th movies into one week because talk about blend together. We're going to tackle the entire franchise. I don't know how long it's gonna take, I don't know how many shows it's gonna take, but I'm excited to get going because I do have a respect, a healthy respect for this franchise. How do you guys feel about it, Ben?
SPEAKER_13I would say it's my favorite horror franchise by far.
SPEAKER_11Out of the slasher genre or just horror in general?
SPEAKER_13Um, as far as slasher franchises go, yeah, Friday's number one. I've had a uh soft spot in my heart for this since I was a uh kid. I I agree. Part six was one of the first, it's one of the first rated R movies I ever saw. So I started I started with other horror films first. I had seen a couple of John Carpenter films before I got into uh into this franchise, but this was my first big love. I do I do admire this. I wouldn't say admire, but I I do have a uh more of a unique fascination with this more than the others. Even even the Halloween series. They're just more fun.
SPEAKER_11I am a Halloween guy, but I gotta say I do really appreciate this franchise for what it is and what it did for the genre. How about you, Jonathan?
SPEAKER_10You a fan? So I'm a fan, but I'm I'm actually a fan of probably the less popular installments of the franchise more than I am probably the ones that everyone loves the most. I appreciate it though. I mean, it has it certainly has had its influence in the genre, it's done great things. A lot of really fantastic directors came out of this franchise. I'm more of a Halloween guy, scream, stuff like that. This one to me is is you know more of the mid-tier, I would put it. Yeah, if I look at it holistically. But again, I think once we get further into this and at the tail end of the installments, I'll probably be a little bit more engaged in terms of uh my enjoyment of the series. But I I do I do appreciate it. Fair enough, fair enough. All right, let's get started.
SPEAKER_17Friday the 13th, 1980, directed by Sean Cunningham, budget 555,000, box office 40 million.
SPEAKER_14I have this dream in a thunderstorm, and it's raining really hard. Sounds like pebbles in a kid. It just keeps getting louder and louder.
SPEAKER_11Apparently, Sean Cunningham was influenced heavily by Halloween, like so many other filmmakers of that time. And I think we may have mentioned this before. I mean, without Halloween, you don't get a lot of this stuff.
SPEAKER_13Well, black Christmas proved the case.
SPEAKER_11Oh, come on. Here we go. Here we go. You know what I mean. Amen.
SPEAKER_13And then Carpenter was like, hmm, I wonder if I can do that better, which he did. Which he did.
SPEAKER_11They managed to raise about, I don't know, average $550,000 to $650,000, which sounds like a lot to you and me, but at the time shooting film uh in that era, that's pretty low budget. No one can say it isn't.
SPEAKER_13Paramount made a killing on this $60 million off of a budget. I've read a couple different reports, but the ceiling on the budget, about $650,000.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. Paramount purchased the rights for about $1.5, I believe, and then Warner Brothers took the uh international rights. But for an investment of $1.5, I mean, for crying out loud, you you know there's gonna be sequels. That's just the way the industry works.
SPEAKER_13But in case anybody's wondering, adjusted for inflation, that would be uh $2.5 million in 2026 dollars. The Friday the 13th uh budget. Oh, the budget that's incredible. That's still incredible because even at a two million dollar price tag, it grossed yeah, sixty million. I believe the original is the fifteenth highest grossing film of 1980, and the second highest grossing film for the mountain of that year.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. I know there's some rights issues later on, years later. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Big time, but we'll get into that later. Paramount really believed in this series for for a long time. Uh they they knew what they had. They knew what they had, and boy, did they give it to us. I think uh they might have given us too much. I think maybe a few breaks here and there in the early 80s might have been called for, but hey, I will say this before we get too deep into it, into the plot and the story and the basic stories of all these. I think the unsung hero for these films is the composer. Harry. Oh, for sure. Harry Manfredini. As I was watching all these films, I and I'd never really thought about it before because all I remember was the that, you know, that's all I remember. But the more I listened to it, I mean, like that that is iconic, of course. But I'm telling you, man, there is some really effective horror music in these films. I think this guy is one of the reasons it feels as competent as it does.
SPEAKER_13It's very polished, it's very professional. Yeah. You guys know that he's from Chicago.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, he uh he attended my alma mater, DePaul University.
SPEAKER_13Chicago born, yeah.
SPEAKER_11I know most of the scores he does for this movie is kind of a mishmash of Jaws and psycho and you know, just kind of uh, you know, that style, but that's what this calls for. And he knew it. And this guy just did a hell of a job with the score. Let me just go through the story for this, and it'll probably serve for the story of about half a dozen of these movies. Oh, I should say spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Do these need to be spoiled? I mean, do we need a spoiler alert?
SPEAKER_13Yeah, yeah. I'd be shocked if anyone listening to this had not seen Friday the 13th. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11But I will say this about the kids in this movie. I say kids, but the young adults. I think this first movie has probably the most grounded characters of just about any of the movies. Uh later on they become caricatures. But these people feel pretty legit. What do you guys think about like the cast of the First Friday?
SPEAKER_13You've got some legitimate actors in this film. Um, everyone knows, of course, that Kevin Bacon is in this as Jack, but you've also got Adrian King, who's quite good, is Alice. Obviously Betsy Palmer, who had been in Hollywood for years. Yeah. Harry Crosby, Lori Begram, Mark Nielsen. And let's not forget Walt Gourney is Crazy Ralph. Um Crazy Ralph, Crazy Ralph actually does the voiceover for Friday the 13th, part 7, The New Blood in 1988. Oh, no kidding. Also, let's not forget Ari Lehman, who, if you've been to a horror convention in the last 20 years, you've probably seen Ari Lehman.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I'm sure we know people who have worked with him. Um you know, he is he makes the rounds, you know. He he he does what he can with his uh, you know, amount of fame that he gathered from this. Hell, even his band, because he's a musician, even his band is called First Jason, you know. Talk about talk about milking it for all you got, boy. I tell you.
SPEAKER_10You were in the movie for all of six seconds and then you just built a career. I mean, good for him. Good for him.
SPEAKER_11But I I know uh I know quite a few people who have worked with him, and by all accounts, he's you know, nice guy. He should be. Yeah, good guy. The Betsy Palmer thing. I saw this interview, uh, and I'll probably play a clip of it about uh when she received the script, and she didn't want to do it because it was horror, but she said on this panel.
SPEAKER_22My agent called and said, How would you like to do a movie? I said, Great. I said, I have not done a movie in years, and I said, California? He said, No, it's going to be shot in New Jersey, and it's ten days' work. You'll make a thousand dollars a day. And I said, Great. He said, Well, there's one catch. And I said, Well, what's that? He said, it's a horror film. I said, Oh no. No, no, no, thank you. No. It's bad enough that I know I'm known as a game player doing I've got a secret game show that I did for 10 or 11 years. And I said, no, and then to be added, horror film. Mm-mm, mm-mm. I said, send me the script. He sent me the script. I read it, and I said, what a piece of shit. Anyway, I said, nobody is going to see this thing. It will come, it will go. That's the end of it. You know, I'll do it. I called him and I said, I'll do it. That's my part of the story.
SPEAKER_11And the writer was sitting next to her. And you see this hand too good. You see this hand creep over and kind of pat him on the shoulder. Oh my, oh, but you know what? The script probably is. If I just had to read this as a screenplay, I just don't think I would be impressed.
SPEAKER_13Hey, real, real quickly, let me segue really quick. Have you guys ever seen pictures of Betsy Palmer when she was younger? She was a fucking knockout.
SPEAKER_10Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_13She was also, I forgot this, but she also starred as Lieutenant Girard in uh a movie you and I like, John. Mr. Roberts by uh John Ford. Yeah. Starring the great Henry Fonda, Jimmy Cagney, William Powell, and Jack Lemon. Yeah, but anyway, she was a real looker. Yeah. But I think she had semi-retired by the time we hit the late 60s. Yeah. I don't think she had made a movie since 68. So she had been out of work for 12 years before Friday the 13th. And uh the story I've read is she needed a new car, so she took the role.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I read that as well. All that means, Ben, is that she has read good scripts. She knows what a good script is. She knew.
SPEAKER_13She knew.
SPEAKER_11But hey, man, when your car breaks down, what are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_10You know? But I think you I think you make a really good point here. You know, I think what makes these films iconic is everything except for the script. I I don't know if there's any great script in the franchise. Correct. Correct. I mean first one.
SPEAKER_13Wait till wait till wait till we get to part three.
SPEAKER_10Well, I take that back. I mean, Jason takes Manhattan as like uh an Academy Award-winning script. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_11Um that's amazing.
SPEAKER_13But if the Academy was in a parallel universe, yes, I agree with you.
SPEAKER_11Bizarro world? Yeah. I gotta be honest, guys, I like the way this is shot. In a way, I kinda wish all of the movies were shot like this. There's something so raw about this, and part of me wishes they would have stuck with this instead of constantly bumping up production values.
SPEAKER_13I made a note just for you, John. One of the things I love, especially about the first two, it changes when we move to California for part three. But dark feels like fucking nighttime. Yeah. Like it's dark. Because they couldn't afford a lot of lights, obviously that's the reason. But nighttime feels like nighttime, and it's it's terrifying because it there is nothing out there.
SPEAKER_11There's a naturalistic approach to it, not a realistic approach, a naturalistic approach. I like it, I gotta say, you know, um, cinematography changes from film to film as we go forward, and I'll probably make notes because I always kind of notice the cinematography. I like the grain in the film, I like the fact you can't see shit, I like I like the fact they only had two lights or whatever.
SPEAKER_13Do you like all the uh do you like all the shoe leather in this movie? Because there's a lot of it. I suppose if you were to cut if you were to cut this down and try to uh replicate modern pacing, I don't even know if you'd have a 50-minute movie, but uh there's something charming about that, and there's something charming about a lot of the movies from this era that don't give a shit about shoe leather.
SPEAKER_11Right. Uh the dialogue really is just there to pad the moments between the kills. There is some pretty bad dialogue throughout the franchise. It's definitely an afterthought. But I like all the POV stuff in this. Um, I mean, when you're trying to shoot fast and cheap, man, go POV, you know? That's the that's the way you gotta do it. And you know, and they did it. I think Sean Cunningham, as a director, I think he did a really good job with this, with with what he had, you know. I think he knew what he was doing.
SPEAKER_13Ironically enough, there is one scene in this movie that's performed very well. It's one of the best scenes in terms of convincing thespianism in the entire series. Yeah. It's the scene when Marcy is sitting down talking to Jack, played by Kevin Bacon, and she's describing her dream. Oh, right. And then Jack talks about the coming thunderstorm. For some reason, that's an incredibly eerie scene, and it really works, and it always stuck with me. It's one of the best in the series. Because let's be honest, this franchise is not known for its terrific performances. And it they don't it doesn't need to be. They don't need to be there.
SPEAKER_11Right. I dig it. I like the fact Tom Savini is involved, you know, coming off of Dawn of the Dead. And compared to that movie, this the effects on this are pretty tame compared to that. But uh, I've always been a Tom Savini fan for what he's been uh able to do in the industry. So uh happy that he's involved.
SPEAKER_16You're good to camp blood, ain't you? God damn it, Ralph. Get out of here. Go on, get, leave people alone.
SPEAKER_09You'll never come back again. Oh, shut up, Ralph. It's got a death curse.
SPEAKER_11I love the way Crazy Ralph says that.
SPEAKER_10I like what you said about the uh the lighting. Uh because I was thinking about this the other day when I was watching these. You know, if you've ever actually been to summer camp, there's no lights anywhere. It's dark, right? Exactly. It's dark as hell. It's dark. I was thinking about these two scenes in particular, and it's the two scenes that take place in the bathroom with the showers. Oh, yeah. And back to back, so you know, the first girl, she's up, she's in the bathroom doing her hair, she, you know, explores the showers, gets killed, but then moments later, another girl's in the same bathroom, and then one of the shower curtains is slightly pulled back, and you see the hand appear ever so you know subtly. That's an incredibly effective scene for me. That's the kind of shit that makes you actually feel like this is a realistic thing. Yeah because that's a totally normal thing that you would do if you look over and see the shower curtain ajar. And I think that's what makes this movie so good is you have little things like that that maybe not, you know, on a surface level are that meaningful, but when it comes to psychological impact and and how it makes you feel, I mean, it's terrifying. And I just love how grainy those scenes are because there are no lights. It's like one bulb in the whole fucking room.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_13The scene where Brenda goes outside towards the archery range and the floodlights suddenly turn on, that's probably the most of the film's lighting budget.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. Well, you're probably right. It's got cool moments like that, but then it's also got other moments where young adults are hanging out on the dock, and one says, you know, if you were a flavor of ice cream, what would you be? Rocky Road, like that. I mean, there's this is just stuff to fill time and hopefully get us to like the characters, you know, and we do for the most part, uh, more than we like them in other installments when they were intentionally made to be super annoying, where you just wanted them to die. I think this is a more grounded film. I think parts one and two are a lot more grounded than uh what they ultimately became.
SPEAKER_13They're very gritty, and they're very dirty. Everyone, if you pay attention, there's you could tell the makeup department here was limited. Everyone's usually got a layer of filth on them, and there's like a patina of like sweat. Right. And moisture and filth on everything. I love it. Right. You're you're in a real place. You're in a real camp covered in dirt and dust. Yeah. Love it.
SPEAKER_11It does feel real. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Very much so. I like the fact that they did this this little device of following Annie, who you think is going to be the lead. We spend some time with her as she's hitchhiking to the camp.
SPEAKER_13Oh, it's very psycho, isn't it?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, it is. It is very psycho, you know, and then they kill her, and then once she did, you know, then the killing starts, and you get all these cool deaths, which is what the franchise is really about, or at least what it became. I do have let me let me run this by you guys. This is Movie Logic 101. See if this passes or fails, okay? So I do like the character of Jack played by Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon's always been a good actor, even when he's this young. And I like the character of Marcy, um, Janine Taylor. But for some reason, I just couldn't get past this. So when they go off to do their thing in the bunkhouse and smoke a little weed and get to know each other a little better, they sneak in there, they get on the bottom bunk, and they start doing their thing, right? And then the camera kind of rises up and reveals Ned, who is dead, very dead, on the top bunk. So, in order for this to work, they must have just not seen him there, or while they're doing it, he was placed there. Those are the two options.
SPEAKER_13Are you are you are you attempting to attribute logic to this franchise?
SPEAKER_11I kind of am. I kind of am because sometimes things go a little bit too far, and it's I mean, I I'm okay with suspending disbelief. I really am, but for this, and then of course they do their thing, she gets up to go to the bathroom, she doesn't see him again, literally, he's like three feet from them, doesn't see him again, and then I have to believe that the killer is under the bunk the entire time. So either the killer sneaks in, or the killer knows that that's the bunk they're gonna go in, or the killer was placing the body on the top bunk and got interrupted. And if I'm gonna believe that, I have to believe that Ned was killed in the daytime on the porch of the bunkhouse, and then at nighttime was taken inside and placed on the top bunk.
SPEAKER_13I I have a solution.
SPEAKER_11Oh, thank god. Thank god. What is it, dude? Yes.
SPEAKER_13It's a it's a hot take. Okay. At the very end of this film, we find out who is alive, even though he was supposed to be drowned. Who do we find out at the end of this movie is alive? Jason Voorhees. Okay. So Jason was working with his mother the entire film.
SPEAKER_11So I agree. I agree. I think Pamela Vohees and Jason were actually killing counselors together, and he never drowned, so she must have deep psychological issues because she certainly seems to think that he drowned. So the reason he is the way he is is that Pamela Voorhees is crazy and raising him out in the woods by herself. Are you following me here? Because I am. She does kind of channel him as a boy, not as an adult. But I agree with you, Ben. I don't think he ever drowned. No. Well, he didn't drown because he's an adult five years later. Yeah. In part two, right?
SPEAKER_13He's clearly alive. Or he did drown. And as we've seen in in subsequent sequels, the lake resurrected him. But that's been my theory for years. And I know it doesn't make any sense, but who cares?
SPEAKER_11I mean, the lake thing, let's let's just, if we take the supernatural any supernatural thing out, because there really is no supernatural elements until later in the series. But there are things that happen to some of these counselors that she could not physically do.
SPEAKER_13Exactly. Right? Exactly.
SPEAKER_11As a five foot eight woman. She had to have her sons have.
SPEAKER_13And Dustly, yeah, she had a she had assistants.
SPEAKER_11She's not going to hold a counselor up against a door and drive arrows through him and let him hang there. Well or throw an adult woman through a window uh into the living room.
SPEAKER_10I'm I'm kind of in agreement that I it's hard for me to believe that a mildly elder elderly lady committed like half of the the kills in this in this movie. I like the reveal of it being just her. Like I really do like that reveal at the end, but it does make more sense that she has an accomplice.
SPEAKER_11I don't think that's what the movie's trying to do at this point. I think that's later. Right. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_13That's revisionist history.
SPEAKER_11It is. It is. I was even looking at whenever the hand comes up and holds Kevin Bacon's head down and the arrow comes through, which is one of the more classic kills of the franchise. The shirt, that that plaid shirt that the arm is wearing. Because I was really into this. I was looking at all the kills, looking for clues. Like maybe Jason might have offed some of them, maybe she did. I was really trying to figure it out. And I'm like, I don't know about this shirt. Because later she shows up in the the blue sweater, but then in one shot, really briefly, you can see that plaid shirt underneath the collar of the blue sweater. So I guess that was her underneath. I don't know. It's uh it's a mind-bender. You know, the whole Jason at the end wasn't even in the script, right?
SPEAKER_13No, that's that's Tom Savini's idea, because honestly, they really didn't know what to do. I think Victor Miller's had just seen Carrie. Right. So they knew they needed a cliffhanger, and I think that's where that idea came into fruition. But if you go that route, that that Camp Crystal Lake, Camp Blood has always been possessed and had a supernatural bent, this entire franchise takes on a whole new meaning and becomes a lot more fun. Right. Does it make any sense? No, but that's generally irrelevant.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, and they would have built up that mythology over subsequent sequels.
SPEAKER_13Yeah.
SPEAKER_11That's not what they had in mind here, obviously. No. No, they were they were winging it. Yeah, it was uh I think it was. It was Savini's idea, right? About the uh the end shot. And look what that one small decision did. Birth the whole franchise. It changed the entire trajectory of the series, honestly. Good for Tom. Good for Tom. I read that uh they wanted Sally Field for the role of Alice. No, I don't think I don't think that was gonna happen.
SPEAKER_13No. Although it it does make sense. What people forget about is this was the first independent film of its kind to secure distribution in the United States by major studio Paramount. And then I think Warner's did the international. It wasn't the biggest moneymaker in terms of an independent picture, that would be John Carpenter's Halloween up until I believe Blair Witch. No, I believe that was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in 1990. That was independently financed and then Blair Witch Project.
SPEAKER_11Tell you what, you could not go to the multiplex and not see a slasher movie in this era. No, that is all there was.
SPEAKER_13The boom was going full force.
SPEAKER_11Right. Full force. Adrienne King, who ultimately ended up playing Alice, I think she did a pretty good job. She's terrific. I think these actors do a good job being actual people. Yes, agree. You know, which is not required later on.
SPEAKER_13No. In fact, it's a detriment later on.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, it kind of is, man. Yeah. I think I'm probably a larger fan of it now than I was when I well, before we decided to tackle this subject, I was kind of like, oh man, because I think you brought it up, Ben. You're like, hey, let's do a Friday the 13th show and release it on Friday the 13th. And I respect your opinion enough to say, okay, but believe me, inside I'm like, do I have to watch these goddamn movies again? I just watched them like five years ago.
SPEAKER_13Yes, I just watched them uh on Friday the 13th last month. By the way, we're getting we're getting two back-to-back Friday the 13th, which I think is fucking awesome.
SPEAKER_11That is pretty neat. But yeah, this defin this will definitely be out on Friday the 13th. You guys got a favorite kill from this movie?
SPEAKER_10I think for me it's uh the Kevin Bacon kill, to be honest with you. It's gotta be it's I mean, it's so brutal. Yeah, Bay of Blood.
SPEAKER_11It's so brutal. It's the best one. And and I think the fact that it is Kevin Bacon, I think that's why everybody points to it. But above that, it is a pretty cool effect. Kevin Bacon talks about this quite you know quite often in some interviews.
SPEAKER_21I want you to take us back to your epic death in Friday the 13th, um, in which you know, you're just laying in bed and lighting, yeah, a joint, right? And you know, a hand comes up from behind and grabs you right in the face. And how many times were you poked in the eyes? How many times did you practice it? What do you remember about filming it?
SPEAKER_05Well, this is what I remember. One is that when you really think about it, in in those days, in that slasher, you know, 80s slasher movies, of which Friday the 13th was one and one of the most successful ones.
SPEAKER_21Yeah.
SPEAKER_05If you were a young person who had sex, you were dead. If you were a young person who had drugs, did drugs, you were dead. I did both. So you knew that I was not going to be lost.
SPEAKER_21And you just like lit that joint too.
SPEAKER_05So it was like I yeah, I barely got one hit on it. It hadn't even kicked in yet. And what happens was it was a it was a fake neck and chest. And I was told that it was a very low budget movie, that they only had one of built one of these so that it had to work the first time. And then they cut a hole out for me to put my head in, and I was on my knees, you know, underneath this bed, and my neck is back. We're out in uh Blairstown, New Jersey, a camp out in Blairstown, New Jersey. So I'm down on the bed like this, and the and the thing is like this, and my neck's like this, and it was believe me, it was not the comfortable position to say the least. They say, Okay, we all got to get this, it's only gonna be one, and they they roll the camera, say action, and there was a uh special effects uh guy who was underneath the bed who had a pump that was you know supposed to pump the blood once the arrow popped through, but the the the hose broke off the pump in the middle of the shot. So uh he, I think I can't remember if it was a man or a woman, had to grab the thing and blow like blow the blood through. And uh that's what's you know, part of the ended up being part of the effect, and we only did it once, and they were like, okay, good, we got that. And I have a bunch of it in my mouth and stuff, and I I spit it out, and you know, I said, you know, is this is this stuff okay? They said, Yeah, it's nothing, yeah. Don't worry about it. It's just food coloring and caro syrup and developing fluids. It's nothing. I was like, developing fluid?
SPEAKER_21Like, what? That doesn't sound safe.
SPEAKER_11Oh wow. I'm okay now. There's some good kills in this, you know, the axe to the face gag is pretty good. Uh Target Practice Girl, that's good. That's my favorite scene. Yeah, yeah, that one's good. This movie's a thumbs up for me.
SPEAKER_13I do like Brenda's body going through a window because that becomes a recurring motif later installments. Jason, the Jason loves to do this shit. Quite often hilarious, honestly.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, you see it a lot. So the ending, we are agreed that it was a dream. There was no boy that pulled Allison to the lake. She just imagined it. Unless you want to take the supernatural angle, but I don't think I am, because he would be five part two is five years after this, so he drowned. He would be 29 years old in part two.
SPEAKER_13The timeline makes no sense. We'll get into the timeline later.
SPEAKER_11And also that is shot in the fall, if you noticed. Oh yeah. Very obviously the fall. Oh yeah. So yeah. Cool, cool little ending.
SPEAKER_17Let's move on and talk about Friday the 13th, part two, 1981. Directed by Steve Minor. Budget 1,250,000. Box office 21,700,000.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to scare anyone. I'm gonna give it to you to trade about J.
SPEAKER_18Hey you guys, look at this!
SPEAKER_02This place's not the same lake as we're gonna be.
SPEAKER_11Jonathan, what do you think about Friday the 13th, part two?
SPEAKER_10So Friday the 13th, part two, for me, um, I I do think it's one of the stronger installments of the franchise, but I honestly think it's weaker than the first. And going from the original to this one is a little bit of a letdown for me in a couple of different aspects. And I I love Steve Minor. I love his directing here, I love what he did with it, but the pacing of the first half of the movie is a little bit off for me. Yeah, and I think it it kind of loses me until like the last 30 minutes. Obviously, with this one, we start out, I think, a couple of months or weeks after the first one. Jason is very much alive. He comes to Alice's apartment, kills her, uh, and then it takes up five years later, right? I think that whole first sequence is really effective. I do really like how they continue with the POV shot. I really like the idea of Pamela Voorhees' head being in the fridge. Um, I thought that was really cool. And I like that she gets the ice pick through the temple. A really fun opening sequence. Obviously, they play back the scenes from the end of the first one to bring everybody kind of up to speed. Boy, they sure do. But I do I do think it's an effective opening for sure.
SPEAKER_11I'm I'm wondering if that was all to extend the runtime, because this is a pretty short film.
SPEAKER_13Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_11Well, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_10And that's the problem I have with it, is like this opening takes quite a while to get through. Yeah. Then you're kind of introduced to your new set of characters, uh uh, you know, back at Camp Crystal like five years later. Yeah. But in terms of like kills, like nobody dies for another 20 plus minutes. Right. You know, uh, that for me in a slasher movie doesn't work. And I think just the whole first hour of this film is a little clunky. I think it tries too hard with the character development and doesn't bring in enough of the kill sequences. And then once we get to the like last half hour, I mean, damn, it's it's a fun wild ride at that point.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I I think this has the same spirit as the first one, which I appreciate. I do like part two. Uh I like it. Uh I like the fact that this is the one and only time where Jason apparently makes a phone call. Um, you know, and I don't know how he got her number, but those these are questions you can't ask, right? You just can't ask these questions. For sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10I think it's also kind of funny in the opening that Jason puts or he takes the the coffee pot or the the the tea kettle off the stove. Yeah. When it's like his mom taught him so well, you know, his mom taught him manners.
SPEAKER_13He's been a responsible, he's a responsible homeowner. As you know, he does have a home in in in part two. Not only how did not only does he have her phone number, how does he know where she lived?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I know. And he had to walk wherever she came from. He walked there, right? And where did he get those boots? Anyway.
SPEAKER_10These are great questions, Ben.
SPEAKER_11I I the opening is kind of uh because you know, she's the hero, right? She's the hero character. We we don't know if she's going to die. And we don't really want her to die, you know, because this is before these movies made you want to start seeing people die, like for real. Man, I hope these people die. Right. It was pretty brave bringing her back just to just to slay her. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think it's a cool decision. Um, I also was kind of happy to see the Harbinger guy die. Crazy Route.
SPEAKER_09It's got a death curse.
SPEAKER_10You know, this movie, it does have the spirit of the first one, but it's still a bit more over the top. One thing we didn't talk about in, you know, for the first one that I wanted to highlight just for all of the installments is I really enjoy the like the art graphics packages at the beginning, you know, when they showcase like the name of the movie. But I think it's hilarious in this one that it just explodes. Right? Like it's an action movie. Like Friday the 13th, part two.
SPEAKER_11I'll tell you this too. I think that poster design on that one sheet for the first movie brilliant. The audience, yeah, it is brilliant. And I'm like, if I saw that in the if I walked into the multiplex, I'd be like, hey man, that looks damn good. I want to go see that movie.
SPEAKER_08I'm seeing that.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, yeah. And a lot of people did. Part two keeps the same motif, but a little bit different. I mean, they knew what they had, I guess. A paramount knew what they had.
SPEAKER_13Not as financially successful as the uh original.
SPEAKER_11Um no, no.
SPEAKER_13Which is odd because you can make the argument that this is significantly better. I think the direction's better. It eliminates a lot of the shoe leather. I will say this for part two. Part two has my favorite scene in this entire franchise. Fans call the campfire scene, where Paul tells the counselors the legend of Jason Voorhees. Okay. That is an awesome sequence. And you know what's odd? It's rarely replicated in other films. Not to this degree.
SPEAKER_11Because it is a campfire story now.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_11I mean, if you don't think about it too much, I mean, because I it's hard to believe that people have not heard this story, especially since, you know, eight people have died for real. But but it is a- I know what you mean. It is a cool story. I I do like part two. There's a part at the beginning I really like where we're pushing in with that, uh, we're on that girl's uh well, we're on that girl's ass, right? In those jean shorts with her kind of ass cheeks hanging out. It's kind of a long shot. You know, the this movie is going toward what it's eventually going to become. You know, we're just staying on this girl's butt right behind her, and my wife was with me, not paying any attention because she's on the verge of divorcing me from making her watch these things. But I I elbowed her, I said, Look, honey, that's a tracking shot. She just rolled her eyes. I do like Ginny, the girl who played Ginny. Amy Steele. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Amy Steele and uh John Furry is uh is Paul or are are really good together. Yeah, they have a good they actually have a lot of chemistry together. The best couple in the series, actually. Or one of them, it might be.
SPEAKER_11I think that I think Amy Steele is kind of a favorite. You know, I think the Ginny character is kind of a favorite for fans. She's one of the best final products in the series, without questions. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, anyway, the uh the ass shot, pretty cool. No one really cares about the acting in these films. I mean not really. No, not not really. And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna knock it for silly things like the no trespassing sign on the wrong side of the fence and stuff like that. But then I just want everybody to know that even though we may say things that sound detrimental to about the movies, I think that we really respect these movies. And I I do like them, but there are some funny things in them that we should point out, you know.
SPEAKER_10Agreed. I think this one certainly does lean into the tropes. I mean, this is you get a cut, I think actually a couple of times where they say, I'll be right back. Right? Oh, right, right, right. Classic horror line, they're not coming back, right? And I mean, honestly, for me, the Jason character is a little goofy looking with the burlap sack mask with only one eye cut out. Um, I think Jason's way more intimidating and scary in future movies, but just kind of walking around with his burlap sack and then just you see only one eye is cut out. I don't know.
SPEAKER_11Because he's not really the Jason that we know yet. No, right? I mean, he he's still just a man living in the woods.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, they don't figure it out until the next year.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Right, right. But then they got it. They finally did, for sure. I do appreciate the creepy shrine to his mother. I think that whole scene is super effective.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I think the the dynamic between the mother and son here is really interesting. Was she just crazy and raised this boy and now he's crazy, thinking that he's dead, but he's actually really there? I mean, there's I I know I'm reading too much into this, and I don't need to go that far.
SPEAKER_13Oh, that's the fun part. That's the fun part.
SPEAKER_11It is. But I will say the the deaths in this are a lot more intricate than the uh the last film.
SPEAKER_10I think they use the set pieces very well on this.
SPEAKER_13They are more complex, which is ironic because Savini's not on this. He was already working on Midnight. So they gave it to a guy named uh Carl Fullerton. But here's the thing by the time 1981 rolls around, slasher films and advancements in practical makeup effects were at an all-time high. So these guys had a large pool in which to pull from. Right. I think that result shows in the uh the end product. Interestingly enough, I've read many, many times that a lot of these films suffer the same fate, but I think about 50 seconds of film had to be cut from this in Eridavoid and X. Yeah. Most notably the murder scene of uh of Jeff played by Bill Randolph and Sandra played by Marta Cobra. They're impaled by a spear while having sex in a bed. This is the scene that many have compared to. Not I mean, it's a blatant ripoff of uh Bar Baba's uh Bay of Blood. Right. Um interestingly enough, after Paramount discovered that Marta Cobra was only 16 when she uh shot this film, uh, a scene showing her with full frontal nudity was completely deleted.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I tell you, man, that was a different time, boy.
SPEAKER_13Yes. Could you imagine if that happened now? Oh man. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all. We are now in the uh Oh, I better not say it. We're in a different era right now. Oh just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_10Okie dokie!
SPEAKER_11Yeah. The budget for this was not that much bigger than the original. No, you know, not really. They did they really did not give I I would think Paramount would put a little bit more into it, but yeah, 1.25?
SPEAKER_13That's not that much more. One year to the day was its release. So they they put this into pre-production incredibly fast.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, yeah, they cranked this thing out as as they continue to do. And why not? They probably did think about it a little bit before green lighting part three, since the uh the box office is about what, about half?
SPEAKER_13Less than half. Yeah, listen to this. The original comes out in early May, and part two is shooting between September and November of 1980, which means they went into pre-production as early as June. Wow. July, yeah. Yep. Oh man.
SPEAKER_10This movie, this movie had some competition in 1981. I mean, remember Evil Dead came out, the Howling, My Bloody Valentine, Halloween 2, the burning. I mean, it was a huge year for slasher films.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, it sure was. I think the the biggest budget scene in this film is probably the bar scene where everybody goes to the bar. Oh, for sure. I guess those people lived, right? Because there's several characters who went to that bar and didn't come back. And uh I guess they're okay. And then some that just disappeared.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, we just never see him again. But when I was watching this with my wife, I uh she she started asking questions. And I knew I was in trouble. You just can't ask questions. Don't ask questions. No, yeah, I'm a big fan of the wheelchair kill in this. I think that's one of my favorite in the whole series, man. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, it really is. That's actually what I put down as my favorite kill of this one. Um, yeah, me too. Not only because it's hilarious that he goes down the stairs backwards, but I actually really like the choice of doing that freeze frame in Zoom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super fun. Yeah, just really cool.
SPEAKER_11There's a lot of that kind of camera work in these, and it's you can tell that it's post-process like they did it in editing, because you can see how they stepped up in the film and the you know, it gets grainier, but it's uh yeah. So the uh editors, you know, they cared. They cared. Well, some of them did. Some of them, yeah. But I do like Steve Minor as a director. I know that he was not happy with this, but that could be associated with this amount of time that he had to prep it. But I I think it's fine. I think he did a good job with uh the rush.
SPEAKER_13It's a rush job. I think of the two movies he did, this is uh ironically the uh the better.
SPEAKER_01This is his debut, too. And so Phil called me up and he goes, Steve, you know, I wish I could do a Boston accent because he's a great Boston accent. He said, Steve, we want to do the sequel. We have to do the sequel, and I I want you to produce it. Because we had a relationship and he tried. Trusted me. I want you to produce it. I said, Phil, I'd love to. I'll do it if you'll let me direct. And I kind of like to say, I don't know if he knew the difference. He said, okay. But I think he really did know the difference. And I think he checked with Sean. Sean said, I thought, oh, I know what happened. Sean said, sure. And then Sean called me up. He goes, I'll, I'll, I'll back you to do direct this if you'll hire hire my wife as the editor. So I hired Susan, his wife, as the editor, and I went on to make this sequel, Friday the 13th, part two. So that's how I got my first big directing kick.
SPEAKER_13Now he wasn't unfamiliar with the franchiser. He served as a uh producer on the first film, so so stepping into the director's chair wasn't particularly difficult. But yeah, I like his work in this.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I do too. There is a a little bit more, a little bit more pizzazz in this one. But I mean, how could there not be? I mean, the first one really is like if we like if the three of us decided let's go out and shoot a slasher next week. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_13We could probably put most of this together that quickly, yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I mean that's all that's you know, but but so what? We didn't. And they did. So some pretty good kills in this. Of course, the wheelchair guy, he's the best. The young lovers impaled by the spear, that's awesome. Ben points out where the influence for that comes from. We have a scene where a car won't start. I gotta tell you, I cannot stand it. I cannot stand when people run to a car and it won't start, man. I just it's a hard roll of the eyes for me.
SPEAKER_13You can't stand it now, but in 1981, that trope had yet to be completely played out yet.
SPEAKER_10All of a sudden, after the 80s, cars just stopped working.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_10Hey, it's a damn Chinese car parts.
SPEAKER_13It's instantaneous tension. Oh no, the car won't start. Or where's my keys? Hey, the car not start the car not starting starting as the new phone. Because you always have to deal with the phone.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, always have to deal with the phone. For sure. Do you have a signal? I don't have a signal. My battery's dead.
SPEAKER_13Oh, I did want to bring this up. So Carl Fullerton, the makeup effects designer, designed the general look for adult Jason Voorhees in this movie. Jason being played by both uh Warrington Gillette and Steve Daskowitz, otherwise known as Steve Dash. But he went with the long red, flowing hair and this weird, crappie beard, all while following the facial deformities that were established in the original Sean Cunningham film, uh, with makeup designed by, as we said, Tom Savini. Right. Now, Fullerton's look for adult Jason was abandoned for 1982's Friday the 13th, part three, and three D, which we'll get to in a second, despite the fact that the film takes place the following day and helmed by the same director, Steve Minor. Right. Therefore, some fans, and I I understand where this comes from, I don't necessarily agree with it, but some fans have theorized that this sequence that shows Jason with a beard and this long hair reflects uh a dream, like we were discussing in the first one, rather than reality. Because the following sequel picks up with the events showing his face having not happened, and therefore whatever is actually represented was Ginny's guess at what he looked like under the burlap sack, rather than what he actually looked like.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_13Which I which I guess excuses the continuity break, I suppose.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. I don't think it needs an excuse though. Cause I don't think anyone cares, but I like the look. It's pretty horrific.
SPEAKER_13I like that each movie has its own look.
SPEAKER_11It does. Yeah. They they always tweak it. What do you guys think about the ending where she takes on the persona of Pamela Voorhees? I love it. I think it works in the context for the film. But how does she know all that? That's my question.
SPEAKER_13She's a psych major. Okay, so here's my theory. I once again, I I'm I'm pulling this out of my ass. Okay, so Amy Steele and John Fury are they're not lovers, but they used to be l I don't fucking know. They like each other, right? You have to assume that off-screen she had more dis discussions with with John Fury, who plays Paul, regarding what Paul had told the Kire Camp earlier in the film. You must assume she got more information from him about this because you're right. How does she know all this? And she says repeatedly, I'm a psych major. She's just fucking smart. What can I say? She's the final girl. She knows everything.
SPEAKER_11Alright, let's go let's just go with that. No, I'm I'm on board, Ben. I'm good. You're great. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13I made that up on the fly.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, it just happened. It just happened off screen.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, there you go. You know what? You can attribute that answer to a lot of shit.
SPEAKER_10A lot of things. Anytime a character doesn't come back for the sequel, they died off screen.
SPEAKER_11Right.
SPEAKER_10You know. She just learned all this off screen. She just learned that that's actually Pamela Vorty's sweater, and she puts it on. And you know, and that's her that's her head, right? Right. Um, even though she's never seen Pamela Vorti's head before. Nope. How did she know that?
SPEAKER_13Or you know what? Maybe she was just making it up and she just happened to be right.
SPEAKER_11No, she's I like the I like the other idea better. Uh she just talked to the guy. Yeah, let's go with that.
SPEAKER_13We'll go with that. All right.
SPEAKER_11Nudity was kind of turned up in this little bit, uh, which is something we continue to see in the franchise. Um, but of course, it's the 80s. Yeah, I uh I dig this. I think the aesthetic is still similar to the first, which I which I really like. And like I said before, I I wish they would have kept this really lo-fi uh feel through most of the films. But that's not the way people do things. So I understand. All right. If there's nothing else, we'll move on to Ben's favorite movie.
SPEAKER_17Friday the 13th, part three in 3D, 1982, directed by Steve Minor. Budget 2,300,000. Box office 36,700,000.
SPEAKER_03Weekends are a good time to escape to the world.
SPEAKER_13To the surprise of no one, this is one of my favorites. It's hard to say if this is actually my favorite Friday. I will say this. Part three and part six are the films that would resemble the Friday the 13th movie. Uh, if you put a gun to my head and forced me to make one, it would resemble either this film or part six. I do I have quite an affinity for part three. So by the time we get to third installment, there are there have been a lot of slasher movies. There's 36 slasher films released in 1981 between the Americans and the Canadians. By the time we get to 1982, we have. I'll just go through a small list: Alone in the Dark, Basket Case, Class Reunion, Dark Sanity, Deadly Games, Death Screams, Dorm the Drip Blood, Honeymoon Horror, Humongous, Island of Blood, Madman, Midnight, Pieces, New York Ripper, Chuck Norris and Silent Rage, that's technically the slasher film, Slumber Puggy Massacre, The Slayer, Superstition, Tenebrae, Trick or Treats, Unhinged, Visiting Hours. Anyway, just that year alone there's 34. So, when the Grosses came in for the second film, Paramount wanted to, of course, put a sequel into development. They knew they needed a new gimmick, however. So they went with a process known as stereoscopic filmmaking, commonly known as 3D. Nice. One of the things everyone knows about this is this is a notoriously difficult and tedious technical process. The filmmakers used a dual lens Aerovision 3D system, requiring immense precision, with scenes often reshot multiple times, and by multiple times I mean David Fincher level, Kubrick level, numbers. In an effort to ensure proper focus and 3D effects. I had several optical printing uh classes in film school, and I have some experience with 3D, and stereoscopic filmmaking is next to impossible. So here's a clip I got from Ray Zone from his book 3D Revolution: The History of Modern Modern Stereoscopic Cinema. He talks about the single-strip DPEC system used to shoot Friday the 13th, Part 3, and 3D. This format drove the first real wide release of 3D movies that took place in the US in the 1980s. Part 3 from Paramount was the first 3D film to have a day and date wide release when it opened in over 700 theaters in North America. I believe its date of release was August 13th, 1982. For the release, Paramount Pictures had to ship a 3D projection lens, aperture plates, instructions for the projectionists, and a 35mm 3D test strip, and a custom-made shipping box. By the way, if you can get a hand on that, you're looking at serious money. This custom-made shipping box went to each theater. The depex system for the film was created by Alvin and Mortimer Marks and their company, the Marx Polarized Corporation of New York. The deep ex system captured left and right images on a single 4-perf 35mm film frame in an over-under configuration using a modified Ariflex Aries 3 35mm camera fitted with a depex converter, complex optical attachment that used prisms and polarizers. If you think that sounds convoluted, just ask the director or anyone that worked on this film how ridiculous it was to make this movie.
SPEAKER_11Not at all. You know, and they still pulled it off, even though they probably had a much longer shooting schedule due to this process.
SPEAKER_13Well, a lot of the actors in this film have said that the producers and especially Steve Minor had very, very little interest in the performances in this film or the dialogue. This is this film is hilariously awful. I like to call it a new dimension in terribleness. I love this movie, but the filmmaking is not good. Not an easy film to make, but I will tell you this is one of my favorites. Do we even need to go over the plot? Probably not, because it's uh relatively repetitive, although there's a couple of things that are very, very cool. First off, part three and three D marks the first appearance of Jason's signature hockey mask, which has not only become a trademark of the character in the franchise, but it single-handedly made him an icon, uh, not just with horror in general, but probably American cinema. We do get a new Jason, played by a trapeze artist known as Richard Brooker. Uh, this part's gonna shock you guys. Richard Brooker's Jason is actually my favorite in the series. Sorry, Kane Hodder. He's the best. I think his Jason is a fucking menace in this movie. Here's another one that's gonna shock you. Or maybe not not not so. Dana Kimmel is my favorite final girl in the series. She plays Chris in this film. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. She's terrific. The general plot of this is so entirely convoluted and ridiculous. Once again, this is not a film you take seriously on any level at all.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_13But I do think it's a lot more, I wouldn't necessarily say imaginative, because I think a lot most of the 3D gimmicks don't work. I think they're just comically preposterous. Right. But it's a lot more fun than the first two because it's so bad. Like this is this is a party movie. You watch this with a group. My wife and I watch this every October for that reason. Like this movie is a riot, but it is not a good film. But it is absolutely one of my favorite installments.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_13And it has very little to do with the 3D. I like the 3D, it's a good gimmick. Does it work? No.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, it seems like the 3D is so random, like the shots that they set up. It doesn't seem like it would be in the script. It just seems like a lot of the times they're just on the fly trying to figure out what they can shoot in 3D. Other than the effects and the arrow and the eyeball and all that stuff. But the uh, you know, the yo-yo, the clothesline poll or whatever. That's stuff we don't need to see that in 3D. If they had the camera, I guess they wanted to go for it. It's just weird, those little moments that they pick out.
SPEAKER_13The technology used to shoot the film in 3D was developed at a cost of approximately 15 million, despite the film only costing 2.2 to make. Wow. So once again, they Paramount hadn't produced a 3D film since Javarro in 1954. And and Charles Bann's Parasite came out earlier that year. Uh, I think that was the first Demi Moore film.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_13But Paramount really, really wanted to revolutionize the process. And it did, because remember, because of this film, you got a Jaws film in 3D, you got an Amityville in 3D. Now, what's interesting is all three of these films are not critical darlings at all. It just wasn't there yet. And you can see it in this film. Most of the gimmicks, they're just nonsense, with the exception of the eyeball death, which is fantastic. But most of them are they're just it's like what a child would come up with. The yo-yo and the joint and the popcorn, which which we ripped off for skeletons in the closet for obvious reasons.
SPEAKER_11The critical darling thing. I I do have a quote from uh Roger Ebert, who I don't know, I always liked Roger Ebert. This is his review of the second film, not the third, but the second. And he writes, uh, Friday the 13th, part two is a cross between the mad slasher and dead teenager genres. About two dozen movies a year feature a mad killer going berserk, and they're all about as bad as this one. So there you go. Go Roger Ebert.
SPEAKER_13You know what, though? You know what, man? Fuck him. He was a hater, he hated this series.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, film critics often uh they kind of look down on this stuff, you know.
SPEAKER_13You know, if he was going to the movies as a teenager, you know, going to driving and getting and getting hand jobs, he would have been fine.
SPEAKER_11Right, yeah, he would have been good.
SPEAKER_13Now I will say this about part three, which is uh I didn't read and I didn't I didn't really fully understand or grasp until recently. This was the first time that Paramount as a studio was really involved in this process. Yeah, and that's one of the reasons the filmmakers were under such duress. Their schedule was tight. If you pay attention very closely to the movie, it's filthy. The lens is filthy.
SPEAKER_11Dude, so filthy.
SPEAKER_13Isn't it dirty? Yeah, I figured I figure you'd catch that.
SPEAKER_11Oh my god. I don't yeah, there was so much grit and grime. I can't imagine the camera operator ever getting another job. And they had no time.
SPEAKER_13The uh the process to shoot the movie required an incredibly difficult camera to maneuver. It was very heavy. Once again, they just had no time to shoot this. And you can see the the directing is very, very simplistic. The camera movements for the most part are are limited. The performances. What's ironic is the performers were allowed a lot of takes, especially for the 3D effects. But you could tell the director had no interest in performance.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_13Because the once again, these were not thespians.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. I can just imagine, you know, after they say uh the director says, cut and uh check the gate, and then the executive says, Fuck that, let's move on. Yep, moving on, you know, and that's what you get, man. You get fucking hair and dirt and everything else in there.
SPEAKER_13If you've got producers breathing down your neck to hold up and make the day, you do not care how somebody screams. All right, should we talk about uh should we talk about the the hockey mask?
SPEAKER_11Good old Shelly. Yeah. The hockey mask. We have Shelly, was it Finkelberg or Finkenstein? Finkelstein, I think. Shelley Finkelstein was that weird, annoying character. Larry Werner.
SPEAKER_13Yep, we have the we have that fat kid to thank for so what I've read over the years is whoever's decision it was ultimately goes to Steve Minor. But a a lot of it can be a lot of the blame can be not blame, but um a lot of the credit should be given to uh 3D effects supervisor Marty Sadoff. There was a lighting check on set during the production of this film, and they wanted to do a uh a lighting test on Richard Brooker. So Marty Sadoff was a hockey fan, and he supplied a Detroit Red Wings gold tender mask to Steve Minor. Unfortunately, they found the mask too small. So, using a technique that any project makeup artist would understand called vacuform, they enlarged the mask and created a new mold. After White finished the molds, art director Terry Ballard placed new red triangles on the mask to give it a unique appearance. They punched holes in it, markings were altered, making it a little different from Sadoff's original uh template. Yeah. And that is the history of Jason's iconic hockey mask.
SPEAKER_11That is really interesting because that has become cinema legend. And I don't even want to ask the questions about where Shelley got the wetsuit or why he's wearing a hockey mask underwater instead of a scuba mask. I don't even want to ask those questions. Uh, I'll just go with it. But I will say this this movie has one of the worst-run grocery stores I've ever seen in my life. Um, he's so rude, right? They got he's rude. They got rabbits and the lettuce on the camera. Yeah, the rabbit. They're opening up peanuts and donuts, just eating them out of the boxes. Didn't the dude eat some fish food too? Oh, yeah, trying the fish food. He's trying the fish food. But see, this is where the caricature starts creeping into the franchise, right? These are not real people.
SPEAKER_13The worst sin in this movie is when Ollie goes into the uh the convenience store. He's the um he's the bald guy in the in the strangest gang in the history of gangs. When he goes in the convenience store to get the beer, they back up into his bike, and of course you get angry, but what does he do? He throws the beer away, man. Like, chug that shit, and then get pissed off.
SPEAKER_11They're an interesting addition to the cast, to the story. At least it's something new, right? At least it's something.
SPEAKER_13I also love the couple in the beginning, where you've got the the the two people that run the uh the grocery store in the opening sequence, right? Yeah. And I love that they try to make her look like she's 60 years old. And some of the 3D effects in there are just comically inept, but once again, you guys gotta remember, you are watching a horror comedy.
SPEAKER_11Right.
SPEAKER_13For sure.
SPEAKER_11At this point, that's what it is.
SPEAKER_13That's what this is.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. I'll tell you what, man, just don't go into the barn. Talk about a kill barn. Man, everybody gets an awful in this frickin' barn. Jonathan, what do you think of the uh little cameo of the Fangoria magazine with the article of Tom Savini there? That's kind of a cool addition.
SPEAKER_10That was pretty sharp, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I like that kind of shit. Going back to the gang though, like I think this is really, I mean, most 80s movies, but like, I don't think anyone in Hollywood knows what gang members look like. You know, like literally every movie that has a gang member or something along those lines, they just look so ridiculous. And it's just like, did you guys just picture this is what you thought it looked like and never did any research on the topic at all?
SPEAKER_13Hey, hey, real quickly, let's credit Steve Minor and Paramount for diversity of casting. You've got a Spanish woman, a black man, and what looks like an Irishman playing this bizarro gang. By the way, like where is the gang from? Are they also from Crystal Lake? Are there other gang members there?
SPEAKER_10The mean streets of Crystal Lake. Yeah. Yeah, these guys would really hang out with each other in real life if they were in gangs, too.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I can imagine that the the 3D actually was tough because I've I've made a little list here of all of the shots. 3D rat on a plank, three D joint pass, three D eyeball, three D wallet toss, three D yo yo, three D ladder climb, three D pitchfork. I mean, they really were three D juggling apples and oranges. They really were trying to find any excuse if they could to justify this.
SPEAKER_13Did you get 3D snake? Or 3D snake? Or 3D crashing the uh chain through the uh window of the car, and then he's doing the laundry when Harold is doing the laundry in the beginning.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, the laundry, the post falls off, and he's it's like everything that like they just purposefully are putting it right in front of the camera. You know what I mean? Like there's not really a rhyme or a reason to the 3D. It's just like, well, let me just get this thing really close to the camera and then we'll make it in three D. I imagine even seeing it in three D would be goofy.
SPEAKER_11You know what I mean? Yeah. Now it just looks really weird. Oh well.
SPEAKER_13You asked me this question earlier why why I I prefer Richard Brooker.
SPEAKER_11Right.
SPEAKER_13Go back and watch the sequence. After he kills Vera, he puts it down, and watch how effortlessly he walks back to the house. It is fucking hilarious. Yeah. Just pay attention to that. Watch how Is he just strolling? Oh, he strolls without a care in the world. Uh, before I forget, we should talk about two things that I think are really interesting in this film. One, Tracy Savage is Debbie. For some reason, screenwriters Carol Watson and Marty Catrocer decided to make Debbie pregnant. Right. It makes no sense, it doesn't come up, it bears nothing on the plot whatsoever, but there you have it. So Jason kills a pregnant woman. Pretty savagely, too, which is pun intended. And number two, this is the part that's really bizarre. We get for the first time the inclination that Jason has committed sexual assault against against Chris Haggins, played by Dana Kimmel. It's very, very unclear exactly what this assault was. Was she actually raped? We don't know. We do know that she has been suffering from childhood trauma as a result of this. Yet returns to the site where this happened, which makes also no sense. Right. In in the film, she's quote mentally scarred.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, they just throw that out there. They just throw it out there and let it float. I mean, yeah, they don't spend a whole lot of time developing it, but it's it's a it's a weird little yeah, it's a weird little element.
SPEAKER_13It doesn't come up again any of the films. Um one of the another infamous part of this production is the multiple endings conceived for Friday the 13th, part three.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_13There's at least three that we know of. Uh two are actually filmed. There's of course the theatrically released ending, where they just simply rip off Friday 1. The original ending of the film would have had Chris emerge from the lake while dreaming, run to the cabin where she thought she heard a noise. She opens the door, Jason is standing in the entrance of the house, and decapitates her. That original ending was shot scrapped because producers just didn't like it. Which leads us to the ending we have uh we have now. Did we talk about budget?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, 2.2. That's what I was saying earlier that I think that it's weird that they tried this process, but still didn't give them a lot of money to make it happen.
SPEAKER_13No, no, not at all. But almost 40 million at the box office, so I guess they were right. Second highest grossing horror film in 1982 behind Poltergeist. Um here's an interesting statistic that I just found. Um, it has the third most attendance of the Friday the 13th franchise with approximately 11,762,440 tickets sold.
SPEAKER_1111 million.
SPEAKER_13What did I say 11,000?
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_13I've been drinking. I've been drinking. Approximately eleven million seven hundred and sixty-two four hundred and forty thousand tickets.
SPEAKER_11I think they had to save money by setting literally half of this movie in that barn. You know what I mean? Like one set.
SPEAKER_10Well, you don't really get to anything else until after the first hour.
SPEAKER_11No, man. We are in that barn.
SPEAKER_10You are in that barn for almost an hour, dude.
SPEAKER_13The pacing, the pacing, even though it's 95 minutes, the pacing of this movie is fucking glacial. Yeah, it is. I agree.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, and the the tone definitely had takes a shift here. I think primarily the tone is dictated by just the characters. As soon as you get in there and you get the uh the couple running the grocery store, those are not real people. They just really lean into this style moving forward, you know, with just more outlandish characters to populate these films.
SPEAKER_13I do like this cast. I actually do. I none of them none of them are actors, but I do like the Actually, that's not true. Some of the ladies are actually not bad. I love the two stoners. I love Larry Zerner. I know a lot, I know a lot of fans just can't stand him, but I think he's great in this. I I really do like this cast, and like I said, I love I love Richard Brooker. And really quickly, before I forget, let's talk about the Friday the 13th, part three main theme, the quote disco theme. Mmm. Yeah. Because it is fantastic. John, please play that when you when you put this together. Alright, let's hear it.
SPEAKER_11Um, I'm a fan of this movie. You know, I I I think it is it is a lot more self-aware and funny than the other two. It's just it's just a different approach, I guess.
SPEAKER_13That's the that's once again, that's the misconception that this is a this is a straight horror movie. It's not. This is a horror comedy. This movie is utterly, utterly ridiculous.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. Jonathan, you got a favorite uh kill scene out of this? There's quite a few because there's a lot of characters in this movie.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, actually, um, it's probably the goofiest kill of the movie, and that's when Andy's doing the fucking handstand walking and just gets like obliterated with the machete in the hallway. What's up with that dude? Comes out of nowhere.
SPEAKER_13That is awesomely shot too. That is awesome, I agree.
SPEAKER_10But to your point, John, these are not real characters. Like, who does this? Right, right. Who's walking around the house handstand walking? Like, it's just I don't know. But it's a good kill. It's a great kill.
SPEAKER_13I like the sequence right before that where Debbie's like, she's like, he goes, Andy goes, You want a beer? And she's like, Yeah, I'll have that beer. And then we're on the shower, she's like, Oh yeah, I'm pregnant. Forget the beer.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_13Classic, classic dialogue.
SPEAKER_11Awesome dialogue. It's a decent entry into the franchise. It uh box office was uh, you know, an uptick. An uptick from the last film.
SPEAKER_13This was supposed to be the this was supposed to be the conclusion of a trilogy, but after this made almost almost the same money that the first one make, yeah. Nope, we're getting a part four two years later. They'll always come up with something, some way to continue. Real quickly, I do love the spear gun attack on Vera as she's trying to retrieve Shelly's wallet from our dock, mainly because it's got a really cheesy 3D effect, and this is the first kill by a masked Jason Voorhees.
SPEAKER_11Oh, yeah, true enough. True enough. Yeah, that's true. That's an example of when the 3D is appropriate.
unknown100%.
SPEAKER_11That's when you'd expect them to use it.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_10I do like the kill um when she's reading the Fangoria magazine. I mean, it's kind of that was great. It's an homage to Kevin Bacon's death. You know what I mean? It's pretty much the same thing, right? They discover there's a body above them dripping blood, boom, knife through the throat, kind of a thing.
SPEAKER_11I'm with you, Jonathan. I I think the uh the groin chop is probably the the best. I you know, the the popping of the eyeball and the head crushing thing is, you know, probably a a second, because that's another like appropriate like uh 3D eyeball thing. I mean that I guess that works.
SPEAKER_13Also, I have one quick question regarding the lack of logic. There is a bathroom in the house. So why does the stoner go outside to use the porta potty or the latrine or the outhouse? Um make something up, just make me feel better.
SPEAKER_11Does that make any sense to you? It's probably where they're staying, probably has a history of bad plumbing. That's that's that's talked about off-screen.
SPEAKER_10Is that working?
SPEAKER_08That's good.
SPEAKER_10There was uh there was a campfire tale off-screen about the plumbing in this movie.
SPEAKER_13I think you guys are giving me a go, but that does make sense.
SPEAKER_17Friday the thirteenth, the final chapter, 1984. Directed by Joseph Zito. Budget 2,600,000, box office 32,900,000.
SPEAKER_03Three times before, you have felt the terror known the magnet. Lived the horror. But this is the one you've been screaming for on Friday, the 13th, the final chapter. Justom is back. He moved like a shadow. That's silent. He never uttered the word. He doesn't even seem to breathe.
unknownIt's over.
SPEAKER_03Friday the thirteenth. The final chapter.
SPEAKER_11Friday the 13th, the final chapter, or so they say. Okay, listen to this. A carefree lakeside vacation is interrupted by the re-emergence of killer Jason Voorhees, as he escapes from a morgue, leaving bodies in his wake. Jason travels to Camp Crystal Lake, where a group of friends is stain. The teens meet some locals, Tommy and Trish, as well as a secretive hiker, Rob. As the group of teenagers engages in drunken debauchery, their numbers begin to dwindle and pieces of the past resurface. Um, I kind of like this one. Fucking A. This is most known as the uh the Crispin Glover dance movie, right? Amongst other things. That's right. George McFly. That's right. The double mint twins. I like I I like him in this. I mean, I I had forgotten that he was actually in this until I rewatched it. He's uh he's good. There's some good performances in this. My favorite line?
SPEAKER_07Hey!
SPEAKER_22Ted! Ted! Hey, Ted, where the hell's corkscrew?
SPEAKER_07That's right.
SPEAKER_11Well, he he got it. He got it.
SPEAKER_13Oh, he got it. Yeah. Hands down, he got it.
SPEAKER_11I like the credits open up with the mask, which is cool. And you get that big recap as well. Pretty heavy on the recaps at the beginning of uh the films in this time. Gotta make that running time. Yeah, that's true, because they're pretty short. This one's pretty efficient. They have settled on the mask by this point because the mask kicks off the credits. They finally figured it out. Tom Savini's back. That's right. And this one's directed by Joseph Zito, which I know that Ben and I have talked about him on a few shows, and we're kind of fans of Joseph Zito.
SPEAKER_10Oh, yeah, he's awesome. Uh well. He did the Prowler invasion USA.
SPEAKER_13You guys haven't met him. You'll think differently if you do. Oh, okay. But yeah, I I do agree. His his action film accolades with the Canon group. Yeah. Second to none.
SPEAKER_11He knows what he's doing. This movie actually looks pretty good. You know, uh, once again, production values take a bump up.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_11Does this pick up right when the story from it does? The next day. The next day. Yeah, the next day, right? Because this is Body in the Morgue. I love it when you see these movies. Anytime you see a nurse, you know there's gonna be problems. Yeah. Nurses have a very low life expectancy in horror movies.
SPEAKER_13You know, somehow, somehow Jason lost uh two or three inches um and also changed clothes, but who gives a shit?
SPEAKER_10There's quite a bit of that in this franchise, I feel. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Um I'm a big fan of the of Axel, the guy in the morgue. Oh, he's great. Oh, he's hilarious, dude.
SPEAKER_13The aerobics video he's watching kills me every time.
SPEAKER_10Every time he's watching the aerobics, then he's eating a sandwich and he just puts it on a dead body, like no problem.
SPEAKER_13Isn't that a weird cliche, especially in horror films, where the coroner or the medical examiner is always eating a sandwich while examining a body?
SPEAKER_11That's true. Yeah, we see that a lot. But yeah, I uh I think this one's good. There's a lot of good stuff in it. It's it's very competent. And I don't think the budget was really that much higher. I think the budget was about roughly the same. Two million, yeah. Yeah. But you know, that's what a good director and a good design team can do. I mean, they're taking it seriously. Uh, maybe not some of those goofy characters, but is this thing is this really any different?
SPEAKER_13Yeah, because it it has the introduction of Corey Feldman as Tommy Jarvis. You do have a family that's the focus of Jason's wrath. Right. Don't get me wrong, the house across the way with all the teens is the other part of his vitriol, but how do you feel about Ted White as Jason? I have no problems with it. He's obviously a professional stunt man. I don't like his mannerisms as much as I like Richard Brooker's. I wish I kind of wish Richard Brooker was brought back. It would have actually made more sense. But Ted White's good. You've seen Romancing the Stone, right? The Bob Zemeckis movie.
SPEAKER_10Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Okay, do you remember the opening of the movie where we're inside of her book and she's narrating the book, and the villain comes into her cabin?
SPEAKER_11Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_13That's Ted White.
SPEAKER_11Uh was he primarily a uh a stunt person? Pretty much stunt.
SPEAKER_13He had been he had been in Westerns for years. And uh from what what I've read over the years, he was not particularly fond of Corey Feldman, and he was not happy with director Joseph Zeto. Apparently they were not on speaking terms at the end of this film, but he's good as Jason.
SPEAKER_11I understand Zito, but what what's what's the issue he's got with Corey Feldman? Little Corey Feldman, who actually is really good in this movie.
SPEAKER_13In Crystal Lake Memories, they make the case that Joseph Zito was such a tyrant on set, it turned Corey Feldman into a little brat, and that's what Ted White was responding to. I don't really blame Corey. One of the things I've read over the years is his treatment of some of his actors, specifically uh Judy Aronson from American Ninja. She got hypothermia during her death in the lake. Oh, no kidding. She was Samantha. Ted White went to bat for her. He was threatening to quit if Zito didn't let her stop and warm her up.
SPEAKER_11Um yeah, because she is she's nude in the lake, right? She's nude. Well, of course. I don't care where you're at. At night, it's cold.
SPEAKER_13I've heard Chuck Norris state that he wasn't particularly fond of Joseph Zito, but I can tell you right now, no one is fucking with Chuck Norris, so I don't think that he I don't think he was trying to challenge Chuck. Nobody wants nobody wants a roundhouse kick to the face because you're over schedule.
SPEAKER_11No, no. And when he worked with Chuck, Chuck had quite a bit of power in the industry. Yeah. Zito would have taken a back seat.
SPEAKER_13And a and a roundhouse kick to the face.
SPEAKER_11And a roundhouse kick to the face, yeah. Yeah, no one wants that. If you come back in here, I'm gonna hit you with so many rights, you're gonna beg for a left. My favorite part with Corey Feldman is this when he was looking out his window and he sees the uh couple making out of the house. You see where he's rolling around in a bed? Yeah, I think we can all relate to that. That was crazy. That was a lot of fun. And you're right, this one does break the mold a little bit. The kids are just as annoying. But you know, during this one, I was kind of thinking, you know, come on, Jason, let's go to work, you know, on some of these kids, because some of them are pretty damn annoying. I think this is when you really start to see the shift where you're rooting for Jason. Yeah. And it seems like on purpose, some of these characters are just dislikable. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't want to go to a party with some of these people.
SPEAKER_13That's kind of one of my issues with this movie. The I I miss the playful nature of part three. This takes a more serious tone. And yeah, you've got some unlikable people. Although I will say this. I'll give a lot of props to Jimmy Mortimer, played by Crispin Glover, and uh the Moore twins. Camilla and Carrie Moore. Yeah. I also like the mom. Oh, yeah. I like Kimberly Back, as Trish, Peter Barton from uh Hell Knight. Remember Hell Knight with Linda Blair? And of course Judy Arnson.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I've got no particular problem with any of them. This is what the characters are. There's some pretty good kills in this.
SPEAKER_13Oh yeah. Yeah, there's some great kills.
SPEAKER_11Starts out with what, the hacksaw to the To the to the corner, yeah. Yeah, to the coroner, right, right. Coroners always die.
SPEAKER_10Especially horny ones.
SPEAKER_11Oh yeah, for sure. And then you got the nurse, as always. Nurses die. Of course. There's quite a few characters, and they uh of course they're just added in, so you can kill them. There's some pretty good ones. And I I like Crispin Glover in this. I think he does a really good job, and you can relate to him a little bit, just wanting to get just wanting to get laid. He's got self-doubt issues.
SPEAKER_13He found the corkscrew. Oh, he did find the corkscrew. Right. Right. He certainly did.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, but I don't mind this one. I I think it's pretty good. I don't know how long anyone could possibly watch vintage porn, but this guy was apparently ready to watch it all night, because that's half the movie. It's this guy.
SPEAKER_13Ted watching the stag films, yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. I wonder how Jason got behind the screen. I do wonder about that. I don't know if he's either able to turn invisible or he's a ninja or something, but a cut scene.
SPEAKER_13D deleted scene.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, yeah. Let's just say that.
SPEAKER_13Yeah. It happened off screen.
SPEAKER_11But no, there's some good stuff in this.
SPEAKER_13Especially Tina. She goes upstairs and Jason launches her out of a window, even though it's obviously a male stunt man. But that's a great death, by the way.
SPEAKER_11It is. It is. It's a good stunt.
SPEAKER_13It's a good stunt.
SPEAKER_11If I'm not mistaken, this is where she hits the top of the car and then they rig the windows to blow out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Is that the one that's a good stunt? Very effective, yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, it was. There are some good stunts in these movies. I know we don't talk about it that much because a lot of the early movies didn't really require stunts as much as just choreograph stabbings. But as the series goes on, the stunts become more and more flashy. You gotta up the body count.
SPEAKER_13Uh you gotta increase the level of violence. And you and to do something new, it usually will require some type of practical stunt. I mean, it makes sense. Most of the guys playing Jason historically have all been stunt men, especially as we go on. Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
SPEAKER_11I I guess I'm not gonna say this is my favorite, but I think this is a totally competent entry into the franchise. I do kind of like this. And it did pretty well, didn't set anything on fire, but 33 million against a two million dollar budget.
SPEAKER_13Oh, yeah, I made money. And that's the thing. That's why that's why a year later we get the next entry in the series. They're like, we can't we can't turn our backs on this box office.
SPEAKER_11I neither would we. Absolutely not. Hell no, man. We keep cranking them out. If someone wanted a sequel to something I've done.
SPEAKER_13I did read something, I did read something interesting. This is the second Friday to be shot in California. This was shot in Topanga Canyon, which has changed a lot since I had been there in the early 80s. This was originally slated to be released in October 84, but producers pushed the release date to April 13, meaning they only had six weeks to complete post-production, which I'm sure Daniel Owenthal and Joel Goodman, the editors, were psyched about that.
SPEAKER_11Right. There's an interview with Glover about his dance scene, and the the song that he requested to dance to was there was uh you know, the script just said they danced, something pretty simple.
SPEAKER_16And I uh asked for them to play uh it was ACDC's Back and Black. Somebody at some point, I don't know if it's around anymore, put it up on YouTube where they could probably for copyright reasons it was taken down, but they had it with back and black. The movements were always odd, but it was a little more syncopated to the back and black than the soundtrack that they ended up using later.
SPEAKER_17Hey, how come we turn that off?
SPEAKER_11Ted White was pretty old at the time when he made this. He was damn near 60 years old when he was in this movie.
SPEAKER_13Well, think about it. This is the same year as Romancing the Stone, and he's he's a grizzled stunt man veteran. You can see it. Yeah, he looks he looks old. He's not Spring chicken.
SPEAKER_11Well, no wonder he didn't want to take any guff from Joseph Zito.
SPEAKER_13No, you've been in the industry that long, you're not taking any shit.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, he was also the so far the longest lived cast member. He died at 96. Nice long career in the industry. Good for him. I thought that was interesting because even at almost 60 years old, he physically, there's some pretty solid physicality from him in here, especially near the end when he's doing the fight scenes and whatnot.
SPEAKER_13A lot of our Jasons are dead. Uh Dickie Brooker's dead, Ted White is dead, uh Steve Dash is dead, Kane's obviously still alive, Derek Mears is still alive.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_13Ken Kurtzinger is still alive. But yeah, we've lost a couple. We've lost some Friday directors too, actually.
SPEAKER_11Let's face it, man. These were made a long time ago. Maybe to us it doesn't seem like that long. But when you really look at it, it's freaking a long time ago.
SPEAKER_13True, yeah. So would you say that so far this is the best film in the franchise? A lot of Friday enthusiasts they state that four, six or the original are the best.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. I don't know. It depends on what criteria, I guess. I mean, competency, probably. It is good. Uh the Jason's good in this. I I guess it is. It's a pretty solid entry. I don't know if it's my favorite. I think my favorite might be coming up, but I do like it. What else we got? We got Hitchhiker Girl, Knife Through the Neck. That's a good one.
SPEAKER_13That's a good effect. Yep.
SPEAKER_11Good blood. Yep. And of course we have inflatable boat girl, machety to the body. You know, we talked about that. Man, I bet that was cold. I never even thought about it until now. You mentioned that. Because you know how long it takes for these things to set up, you know? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. She was freezing her ass off out there. Not fun. There's a harpoon to the groin in this. Pretty savage, because I think, doesn't he shoot him in the groin and then lift him up?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_13Hold him up above his head with the arrow through his I don't care how strong you are, that's just simply not possible. But it it is a good stunt. Yeah. It's a good image.
SPEAKER_11And then I guess are they trying to put the onus on the um the guy camping in the woods? Oh, you're talking about Rob Deer? Wait a minute. Is this he is he looking for his sister or something like that? Is that this? Okay.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, he's looking for his sister who disappeared slash died in part two.
SPEAKER_11Okay, so it's nice that they kind of keep that mythology going. Yeah. I do like that. I I don't think that Jason actually kills anybody with a machete in this. I think it's a lot of spikes. That seems to be his weapon of choice in this.
SPEAKER_13No, no, no. Uh he kills Rob in the basement. There's that brutal scene where he goes, he's killing me. It's actually quite terrifying. He takes Rob's machete. Oh, is that what it is? Okay. But you're right. He doesn't technically he has it at the end, and that's how Tommy kills him. Um but you're right. He does have a machete, but there's no violence committed with it. Well, there's violence committed with it, just not by him.
SPEAKER_11Right, right.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, Rob is looking for his sister, Sandra Deere. I believe that's part two. And if you take a look at the s the timeline of this series, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Right. No, no, no. I'm I'm am I wrong? Yeah, no, that Sandra Deere is part two, that's correct.
SPEAKER_11It's hard to keep straight, man.
SPEAKER_13So wait a minute. So I don't remember the timeline. Does part two take place the day before part three?
SPEAKER_10I think it all takes place within a matter of a few days.
SPEAKER_13So that means why is Rob so freaked out? Because his sister's only been gone for two days. I have to double check that. Maybe a fan will correct that.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, the timeline between those two, I'm not sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Like it had it been several months, that would make sense. But like really? Yeah, whatever. Like, how did he know?
SPEAKER_10That's why this is the two, three, and four, because the timeline for me is rough because if you have this massacre that takes place in two, and then the next day, right, then another massacre takes place during three. And then in number four, they're uh discovering all the bodies that are in this barn. Yeah. And yet now we're having a whole nother bus of kids come. It's just like, wait a minute, guys, wouldn't you just shut the whole fucking place down? Exactly. You've had two massacres in two nights. Yeah, you'd shut it down. We should probably shut this down and call the fucking FBI.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Um, bring them on in. And so you got some weird vagrant carrying out about some eyeball he found. Uh, there is one other thing that I wanted to bring out. This is the first film in the series to have two survivors instead of one. And one of them is a child.
SPEAKER_11This movie in the next two could be just called the Tommy Jarvis Chronicles, because it's kind of what it is.
SPEAKER_13Yes, it's a trilogy. It's a Tommy Jarvis trilogy, absolutely.
SPEAKER_10Pretty sure uh Halloween four and five stole this formula from these movies. 100%.
SPEAKER_11With Halloween, Halloween would never steal anything.
SPEAKER_10All right, never. Yeah, how dare they!
SPEAKER_13Just ask Bob Clark.
SPEAKER_10Maybe you guys can help me understand something with Tommy. So at the end of four, uh obviously Jason is attacking him and his sister, and he then just goes upstairs and shaves his head. Here it comes. And he somehow knows, I guess, how to how Jason looked as a child. I'm confused by that. And maybe again, I should just be suspending my disbelief, or maybe there was something that was said off camera that I don't know about. But I was a little bit perplexed that Tommy knew what to do in that situation to distract Jason, and maybe I missed something.
SPEAKER_13How does Tommy Jarvis know what Jason Voorhees looked like as a child?
SPEAKER_10That and like even just like how would he know that would, I guess, have some kind of uh an emotional reaction. He may have seen the first movie.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, that makes sense. He saw the first movie. And remember, the end of the first movie is supposedly a dream, so that version only exists in her brain. So how would he know that? That you're right. He wouldn't know what he looks like. It that yeah, that's a good point, John.
SPEAKER_11And would it matter anyway? Because we already kind of discussed it. More likely than not, he did not drown in the first place. Right. Otherwise, this would be some kind of spawn from the lake, but he's clearly just a deformed man.
SPEAKER_13Alright, you want me to give you my bullshit reason? Here's here it is. I love it. Alright, alright, so they obviously live in the vicinity of Camp Blood. So the locals, they must have drawn pictures of him or have seen him, and he's getting this information second hand. But the once again, he would have had to have looked like that before he died. Right. So basically, John, you're 100% correct. That makes no sense, but I'm willing to overlook it.
SPEAKER_11I dig it. This one's pretty good. It's a pretty solid entry. Top three? Probably so far.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, one thing I do appreciate about this one is the poster art for it. Oh, it's incredible, isn't it? I think it's probably second to the original.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, they're they've really leaned into the mask this time.
SPEAKER_13I iconography pays. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. Oh, it does. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, man. It's gotta be the top visual representation of a uh a film villain.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, it's a perfect poster.
SPEAKER_11But there's uh, you know, there's camera cranes in this. There's uh there's some production value.
SPEAKER_13There's that beautiful crane shot where he's approaching the house and then the lightning hits, and you can see the shadows of him murder. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11But again, don't go into barn.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_11That barn is cursed.
SPEAKER_09It's got a death cursed.
SPEAKER_11So the ending. He's not really possessed by his spirit or anything like that, right? He's just psychologically scarred, correct? Corey Feldman's character, Tommy Jarvis.
SPEAKER_13He could be possessed because Jason's already kind of supernatural.
SPEAKER_11Well, it's weird because it doesn't seem like he's supernatural until uh two films from now.
SPEAKER_13Until six. Our logic of the supernatural is that we we we made this claim. He did drown, and the lake resurrected him once, which it does again in parts six, seven, technically eight, uh, electricity keeps him alive again. But I think that was our theory.
SPEAKER_11But if you disr if you disregard that, then Yeah, I think if the lake was really a thing, they would have made a thing of it. You know what I mean? There's never any talk about the lake.
SPEAKER_13It's always a there should have been, right? There should have been. The lake should have been more of a character.
SPEAKER_11It would have been a better approach. Like it's the area. It's the area. Yeah. That would have solved a lot of a lot of problems. A lot of problems. Oh well. Um, yeah, I'm a fan of this. I do like it. Jason's death at the end. Uh pretty gruesome. It's a cool little effect that he did with his head sliding down the machete. Um that is this one, right? God damn, man. These are all freaking bleeding together. I'm pretty sure it is. I'm pretty sure it is. Anyway, that's enough of this one. This one's this one's great. And now it is time to talk about something that's not the final chapter because it is called Friday the 13th, a new beginning, 1984.
SPEAKER_17Directed by Danny Steinman. Budget 2,200,000. Box office 31,900,000.
SPEAKER_03If the memory of Jason still haunts you, you're not alone. Friday the 13th, part five.
SPEAKER_12Why did it give me every time they didn't think that? Is it fine?
SPEAKER_03That one just pick up child's play. Friday, the 13th, part five. Under the beginning.
SPEAKER_11Okay. Well, the money train has got to keep on rolling, right? It does.
SPEAKER_13I hey. I think Paramount lied to us. I used to not like this entry, which is ironic because it's directed by a former pornographer and exploitation filmmaker named Danny Steinemann, who's who's no longer with us. It's a what I like to call a Who-Done It Porno. It's a filthy movie.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_13And it also has the reputation, if I'm not mistaken, of having a total of 23 on-screen deaths. Wow. Making it uh it has the biggest uh body count in the at least in the paramount entries. Uh 23 total deaths, 16 men, 7 women, 17 by the imposter killer. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. I just I just left the cat out of the bag. One by Tommy and one by Vic, including a couple of dream sequence deaths. So let me go over a plot synopsis really quickly. Set years after the events of the previous film, the story follows a teenage Tommy Jarvis, played by a pretty good John Shepherd, who went on to do nothing after this, who was institutionalized at a halfway house near Crystal Lake because of nightmares of mass murderer Jason Voorhees, whom he killed as a child. Tommy must face his fears when a new hockey mask wearing murderer initiates another violent killing rampage in the area. So, like I said, New Beginning features an incredible number of on-screen murders. Uh, aside from its gore and violence, the film has become known for its explicit nudity sex scenes and preposterous depictions of illicit drug use. Shot in California in 1984 on a budget of two million, the movie was released theatrical on 22 March 1985, and grossed 22 million, which is pretty damn good.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_13I got two things to say about this movie. Demon and those damn enchiladas.
SPEAKER_11Uh this this is where we are. We are fully in the camp mode, right? This is pure camp by this point. Yes. These characters are crazy. But that kind of makes it fun, though. You know?
SPEAKER_13This is a it's a filthy movie, but it's a lot of fun. Despite the fact that it has some really like insultingly cliched and stereotypical characters, but it's also got some great characters. For example, it's got uh Reggie the Reckless, who everybody loves.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. Well, not everybody, but yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00They call me Reggie the Reckless.
SPEAKER_13Miguel, uh Miguel Nunez from uh Return of the Living Dead uh as Demon is also great. Um let me let me back up. Let me back up really quickly. The producer of this movie, of the series, since part two, Frank Mancuso Jr., he joined the series in 1981. He got elevated to producer for the third movie, and he had kind of lost interest in the series. He was not getting respect for the work he had done on this franchise, despite it being a huge money machine at Paramount. So he decided to take a back seat and kind of allow the producers and the director to kind of do whatever they want, which is why this film is so just ridiculous and excessive. I kind of like that. Uh you could tell that the filmmakers had a lot of freedom, and it definitely shows because it's a, like I told you, it's a whodunit porno. And that is one of the parts about this that I like. It's got a there's a clue aspect to it. Like, like we know Jason's dead. At least we think we know Jason's dead. We think he's dead, right? So is there a copycat, Jason? And there's another brilliant thing that Danny Steinemann and his screenwriter, who I believe is David Cohen, they do. They take away all of John Shepherd's dialogue, which makes him very, very ominous, very mysterious. So the entire movie you're like, you know what? Is it somebody at this camp? Or sorry, not the camp. Is it somebody at this halfway house? Or is it Tommy? So you're always guessing. And I'll be honest, the first time I saw this, I'm like, oh, it's clearly Tommy.
SPEAKER_11He's nuts, he looks insane. I think this one out of all of them does have that murder mystery component to it a little bit more than the others. Yeah, I think John Shepard was was good. I mean, there's some there's some good people in this. This is the odd man out film, right? This is like the this is like the Halloween three of the franchise. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_10That's that's exactly what it is.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_10They certainly took a swing. They certainly took a swing.
SPEAKER_11It's a weird decision to make because why not just figure out a way to bring him back? It's it's kind of brave in a way. I kind of respect that.
SPEAKER_13I I do want to bring something up really quickly before I forget. If you pay attention to the final 10 or 15 minutes or so of this movie, not not the entire third act, but the latter half of the third act. If you watch the sequence where Jason chases after Pam and Reggie, Pam being Melanie Kiddeman, the final girl. Yeah. Just pretend that Jason is not actually trying to kill either of them, but he's just trying to return some car keys he found. It'll take this film in a whole new direction for you, and you will not stop laughing. Just remember that. Go back and watch it and tell me what you think.
SPEAKER_11Well, now I have to.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, now you have to.
SPEAKER_11Let's talk about the opening.
SPEAKER_13Let's do it.
SPEAKER_07Let's rip this sucker up.
SPEAKER_04Gotta get a look at the main man.
SPEAKER_07Woo!
SPEAKER_11I I like it. Uh it looks great. It just looks great. It's so well done. I do remember when I watched it the first time, I thought that was the movie. I thought it was. You know, and they brought Corey Feldman back and everything. And then, of course, you know, Corey Feldman's character is so I don't know, he's so mentally uh disturbed by the bad haircut he gave himself in the last movie that uh he's just institutionalized himself. But I would too.
SPEAKER_13I believe that sequence was actually shot in his backyard because he was on a weekend hiatus from shooting um Goonies. Really? That's literally in his backyard. Yeah. They didn't they they had maybe they had maybe a day to shoot that. Uh and it's and it's creepy. As Jason approaches, that's creepier than hell.
SPEAKER_11And it looks really good. Yeah, I mean, Joseph Zito is good. He's a good director. I mean, he is. But I will say that the I I don't know how anybody, these must be the worst camps in America. Because, you know, not only is there a 98% chance you're gonna be murdered, but it also rains all the time. All the time. All the time it rains.
SPEAKER_13Also, you know what's interesting about this quote halfway house in this movie? For a halfway house, there certainly is a lot of sex, drugs, and rock and rolling. There sure are, don't you think? Yeah. I uh I've worked in a facility like this, and this is not my experience.
SPEAKER_11Back to the beginning, I kind of remember watching it the first time back in the day, and when I thought that that's what is, before it was a you know, you went off into a different direction. But when I was watching it, I'm thinking, you know, they and for one thing, the coffin's buried literally like six inches under the dirt, right? I mean, just you know, and they open it up, Jason's in there, and they they bury him with his mask, they bury him with his machete. He I mean, what just in case.
SPEAKER_13Hey, just in case he wakes up.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, he's gotta have his tools. Yeah, those are his. You don't want to be a thief. I don't know. Jonathan, what do you think, man? Where do you where does this rank for you?
SPEAKER_10Um, this one's probably lower on the ladder for me, to be honest with you. I appreciate the uh the ambition behind it, but it just none of it really resonates with me, to be honest with you. There are some good kills in this movie, I'll give them that. I really enjoy the roach player.
SPEAKER_1323 of them.
SPEAKER_10It's a lot. But I just I don't know. There's just a lot of mental gymnastics in this one where it's like, I just want to see Jason killing people. Like it's not that complicated and it doesn't need to be. I don't want to try to solve a mystery as to who the killer is when this is the fifth installment of a franchise. Yeah. You want to start it with this or you know what have you, but this one was just a rough one for me, I'll be honest.
SPEAKER_11I think a lot of people felt cheated when this was over. You know what I mean? Totally.
SPEAKER_13I was pissed.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_13And then as I got older, I'm like, ah, I see what they're doing here.
SPEAKER_10You end it with Tommy, you know, trying to kill the girl in the hospital room. And then it's like, oh yeah, let's just jump to six and he's released from he's fine. You know what I mean? Like, wait, what? He's fine. I thought the dude was fucking crazy.
SPEAKER_13He also got plastic surgery to look exactly like actor Tom Matthews. It's incredible.
SPEAKER_10It's true. I just think this one's lower on there for me.
SPEAKER_11That's all. Yeah. I mean, I kind of agree. But only because of the cheat. There's actually some really good stuff in this film. One thing I noticed, which I thought was funny, when Tommy Jarvis gets to the uh facility, uh, he's just unpacking his things and he's looking at that picture of his sister and his mom. And the picture is just a frame out of the that last movie. Yeah. I love that.
SPEAKER_07It is. You're like what?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, that's good. Reggie the Reckless, a lot of times when there's kids in movies, I just find them annoying.
SPEAKER_00They call me Reggie the Reckless.
SPEAKER_11It wasn't too bad.
SPEAKER_13That's Dudley, man. Is it? Dudley? Shivar Ross, yeah. It's Dudley from uh Different Strokes. Oh, right, right. He was a big deal in '84. People forget that. Or sorry, 85. I don't want anyone to come down on me.
SPEAKER_11You know you're in for a different type of movie near the beginning when the uh the police pull up in that. I swear that cop car that looks like it's from the Andy Griffith show. This thing looks like it's from the freaking 40s. But then you got the uh the redneck and his mother pulling up on that motorcycle.
SPEAKER_10Ethel, Ethel and Jr.
SPEAKER_01They were screwing their heads up, Matt. And I think we're all pretty lucky this time because Ethel didn't see them. I'll take care of it.
SPEAKER_09Morning, Ethel. Don't you look lovely today?
SPEAKER_20Now, Sheriff, you better hear me and hear me good. I want this loony bin closed down. You hear me, fella? Now, these kids ain't nothing but trouble. They don't respect others' property and they're all crazy. I don't know what those two herbers were doing in my yard. Would you shut the fuck up?
SPEAKER_13Well, and you know, it's funny in her in her defense, she's right. All she's fucking they're just having sex and doing drugs, you know. I don't blame her.
SPEAKER_11Character, like the fat guy, Joey, who's there just to be fat and annoying. With a chocolate on his face.
SPEAKER_13If you're fat in the eighties, you are also stupid automatically.
SPEAKER_11Oh, right, right. You got Violet with her punk hair and headphones. I mean, these are just characters. These are straight out of central casting. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_13Oh, it's nothing, nothing but cliches.
SPEAKER_11We need uh we need a preppy girl with a sweater on her shoulders. You know, we need a we need a guy with a stutter.
SPEAKER_13Your personality is fat. Your personality is punk. Your personality is dancing. And and and for demon, your personality is enchiladas. By the way, can we talk about the enchiladas scene?
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Okay, so so he's taken a shit in this outhouse and begins to woo. Trying to geez. He attempts to woo his lady with this weird song dance.
SPEAKER_06He goes, ooh, baby, ooh, baby, ooh, baby, ooh, baby, ooh, baby. Hey, baby.
SPEAKER_11You wouldn't be able to pull that off in part one or two. You know what I mean? It's they're completely different things.
SPEAKER_13The the first two were very grounded, and you can see I I I honestly think that five is the successor to three. Four take a more grounded approach. It was very serious.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Five is five is just as preposterous as three with a little bit more sex and violence. I right. I I think five is a lot more mean-spirited than three, but the tone is generally the same, which is just nonsense.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I just can't believe they had the nerve to put a guy with a stutter in there. You know what I mean? I mean, these these cliches are just sky high in this thing, man. The entire script.
SPEAKER_13The entire script is just stereotyped, yeah.
SPEAKER_10Right. They kind of feel like the Dream Warriors.
SPEAKER_13Your personality is wizard. Your personality is switchblade, your personality is good girl.
SPEAKER_10I mean, it's kind of the same thing, right? Like you're checking all the boxes. You got the punk chick or the chick who wants to be punk rock, you got the kid who can't walk, you know.
SPEAKER_13You got the wheelchair kid in there. Yeah, I gotta get the Madonna, you got the whore, you got the tough guy, the fat guy. I want to bring something up too that that struck me as odd. Okay, so spoiler alert, the killer here is Roy, played by actor Dick Wheeland. Although the sequences of Jason committing acts of murder are are performed by stuntman Tom Morga, who, if I'm not mistaken, played in Chancewat 2, and I believe he was Michael Myers in Halloween 4. Okay. This entire movie gets spurred because Vic, a violent-tempered patient at the halfway house, who honestly should be in jail, gets really angry at Joey for offering him a chocolate bar and kills him. This basically sets off the movie's plot. But here's the interesting part that a lot of people don't realize. This becomes then not only a Who-Done It, but a revenge film where Joey's dad, we learn at the end of the film, commits all of these murders. But here's the most ironic part. He never kills Vic, the killer of his son. That guy just goes to jail. So it's like, why are you killing all of these people? They didn't do it.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_13The impetus is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_11I think my attitude is I'm kind of I'm kind of with Roy. These these people have got to die. You know what I mean? They've got to.
SPEAKER_08Oh, I don't blame them.
SPEAKER_11I just I just can't allow these people to exist in cinema.
SPEAKER_13Well, you know what? The producers of Friday the 13th, part five have your back.
SPEAKER_11The more we talk about this, the more it's moving up my list. I gotta be honest. I told you, it's a really fun movie. Um what about the two greasers that show up in the in the car don't start? They're from the 50s.
SPEAKER_13Oh, I have I have the weirdest piece I have the weirdest piece of trivia for you about about one of the actors in that scene, uh, D. Simone. I believe Billy Macaulay is one of the guys in that scene. Yeah. Let me make a real quick segue. Sure. Danny Steinman made a movie called uh Unseen from 1980. He was taking over for uh a director named Tom D. Simone, who did the previously mentioned um Hell Knight with Linda Blair. Okay. That director's brother is Bob D. Simone, who plays Billy McCauley, one of the greasers who's killed. I think he's killed with the flare, is that correct?
SPEAKER_11One of them was killed with the flare, yeah.
SPEAKER_13John's right, that is a great kill.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_11This is almost uh almost scary movie territory with how goofy it is. Like making fun of the tropes itself. And if it is truly doing that, I gotta give them props. If they're commentating on the genre and possibly the franchise, then I gotta respect it because they do a damn good job. Satire.
SPEAKER_13I think it's the first exploitation Friday we got, because this movie is excessive.
SPEAKER_11It is. Um, there's this one funny thing that I that I thought I saw. When uh Joey, the fat kid, is dead. The next day uh they're setting the breakfast table. Violet's setting the breakfast table, if you remember this, and you've got the old cook, the old black guy who's the cook. You know, they're all around the table, and she sets too many play settings because Joey's no longer with them, right? The the cook is laughing when he says it, you know. Hey, I think you set too many play settings there.
SPEAKER_13I learned something new that I had never known before in doing research for this. There's actually another Jason in this film. There's a secondary stunt man named John Hawk. He appears as Jason in the opening dream sequence because Tom Morga was unavailable when the scene was shot. I've read conflicting reports that John Hawk also performs the final stunt where Roy falls off the barn. I'm not 100% certain if that's actually. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_11Okay.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, I did not know that until very, very recently.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. The more I'm thinking about this, the more I'm liking this movie. I told you. I was fully prepared to tear it apart here, but the more we talk about it. I told you it's a Wodun It Porno.
SPEAKER_13It's fun. Um, and speaking of Who Done It Porno, due to the explicit nature of the violence and sex, New Beginning would be submitted to the MPAA a total of nine times before cutting 42 seconds and eventually being granted an R rating. Wow.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. I like when the Angry Mirror. They got even got an Angry Mare showing up yelling at the police chief. How many times have we seen? You better catch that murdering psycho or whatever.
SPEAKER_13Would you shut the fuck up? What's your what's your favorite death in this in this?
SPEAKER_11Dude, I'd have to think about it, man. There's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot in this. You know what? That the one where well, first off, when Roy uh kills the nude girl with the shears, and then he comes to find her, then he he runs to the of course, movie logic, Roy knew exactly what tree to hide behind. Right? So the young guy backs up against it, Roy throws the belt around his eyes and then tightens it. Uh that one's pretty pretty gnarly.
SPEAKER_13Here, let me give you a run- let me give you a rundown, because like I said, there's 23. Miss Burns dies during childbirth off-screen, but it's mentioned. Joey Burns, hacked to death by Vic with an axe in a fit of rage. Vincent Manalo, Road Flare put in his mouth by Roy Burns. Pete Lindley, throat slit by Roy Burns with a machete. Billy McCauley hit in the back of this is this is D. Simone. Billy McCully hit in the back of the head by Roy Burns with an axe. Lena hit in the chest by Roy Burns with an axe. Raymond stabbed in the stomach by Roy Burns. Tina, eyes gouged out by Roy Burns, with garden shears, off-camera. That's a good one.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_13The only problem is it's it's off camera. Eddie Kelso, head crushed against a tree by Roy Burns, who wrapped a belt around his head and twisted it and crushed his head. That's also a good one. That's really good practical makeup. Dr. Matthew Letter, who's also in 1989's uh Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade, if you pay attention. Spiked in the head by Roy Burns off-screen. George Winter, eyes gouged up. Anita Robb, throat slit. Demon Winter, stab in the chest, and leg. This is my favorite. Junior Hubbard, Ethel's son. He gets decapitated while riding the motorcycle with a cleaver. Ethel hit in the face by Roy Burns with a cleaver. Jake Patterson, face slashed by Roy Burns with a cleaver. Robin Brown, stabbed from under the bed by Roy Burns with a machete. Violet, stabbed in the stomach. Corner Duke Johnson, throat slit. Corner Roy Burns. Of course, we know what happens to him at the end. Good lord. Yeah. That's not, I don't, is that including the dreams? No, I don't think that includes the dreams. I think I'm gonna go with you. You like the the motorcycle machete? I think I do. I think I do.
SPEAKER_11Just because I really wanted to see that guy get it, you know? You and me both. So you got a favorite Shiftly?
SPEAKER_10I mean, my favorite kill is the Road Flayer. I just think it's the Yeah, that's good too. The most interesting one. I think it's a really cool idea, actually. Yeah, that was cool.
SPEAKER_13A lot of cleaver kills. Yeah. Um lot of cleaver kills and a machete. Uh once again, there's a lot of deaths off-screen. Um, a lot of those were cut, like I said, because of the business with the MPAA. Right. Yeah, there's a bunch in this. There's a there's an axe, there's a bunch of weapons. Axe, garden shears, a machete, a meat cleaver, a spear, bad language? No.
SPEAKER_11I like the hero moment they give Reggie at the end with uh the plow bursting out of the barn. That's kind of different for the series.
SPEAKER_13Something else I had read that's really interesting. Let's go back to part two for a second. One of the writers of part three, Martin Catrasser, he had written a script in which the character of Ginny had survived part two and then was committed to a menstrual institution. Once again, this is gonna sound very familiar to you. The producers were concerned that the story would divert too far from the standard Friday the thirteenth formula, not to mention it would resemble Halloween two. Yeah. So this movie's script actually has its beginnings in Friday the thirteenth, uh, a Friday the thirteenth sequel that was never made, that was initially supposed to be part three.
SPEAKER_11Okay, okay. One thing that I've learned while watching these movies is that if you are running from a killer in the woods, say, always keep screaming so they know exactly where you are.
SPEAKER_13Always keep screaming and don't stop doing drugs and having sex.
SPEAKER_11No. Always fall down. Uh the Reggie thing is cool, little hero moment they gave him. That's kind of neat. I I want to say that for little Reggie, I think one of his favorite parts of this movie is when he got to hug the chick at the end and she was uh soaking wet with no brawn.
SPEAKER_00They call me Reggie the Reckless.
SPEAKER_11You know, he was probably thrilled about that. Oh, I'm sure that he was. Get his face right in there.
SPEAKER_13Oh, we should talk about uh we should talk about the hockey mask. This is the only film in the series to feature a hockey mask with the blue chevrons, the blue two blue triangles pointing downward as opposed to the more common variant of three red triangles with the lower two pointing upward. And you're right, it's a subtle hint for the audience that the killer is not Jason.
SPEAKER_11Right. They end up in the killer barn again.
SPEAKER_13They do. Stay out of the barn, man.
SPEAKER_11There's all there's always little fun things to you know when Jason's tracking down the uh the final, you know, the final girl and Reggie in the the barn, and uh he opens that door and she jumps out with a chainsaw, and the chainsaw's like already running. And I wrote a note because I I'd been drinking. I'm like, that's not how chainsaws work. You don't just push a button and they come on.
SPEAKER_13No. The door opens actually no weapon in this in this movie is yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_11But they know that when they they know that when they're stay staging the scene. They know that that's not how a chainsaw works. They know you gotta prime it and pull the cord to get the thing going, you know? But they just they just don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_13They did it off screen, don't worry about it. Oh, okay, okay, good. Gotcha. It was done off screen.
SPEAKER_11Hey, do you guys think the sheriff looks like Bill Pullman? Yes. Yeah, a little bit for sure.
SPEAKER_13Cal Tucker, he's actually a Chicago native. That's uh Marco St. John. Um, if you remember correctly, he played the horny truck driver in Ridley Scott's Thelman Louise. You guys remember that?
SPEAKER_11Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_13And they blow up his rig. He's kind of a funny. He's also in Tight Rope. Oh, is he? Cylind Eastwood's Tightrope. He's in yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_11Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_13And John Ru's Hard Target from 93, a movie that you and I both seem to like. Where where is he in Hard Target? In Hard Target, he plays, oh God. I hold on, my memory is not as good as you three. He plays Dr. Morton in Hard Target Target.
SPEAKER_11I was saying, I've seen the guy around, but I always thought he looked like Bill Pullman. I I dig this. Um I I gotta tell you, this was pretty low on my uh tier, but it has moved up now that I really think about what they were trying to do.
SPEAKER_13You're a pervert, that's why.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I don't know about that, but uh but I I will admit that if this was a little tongue-in-cheek, that opens it up to me a little bit. I just thought a lot of the stuff was uh not incompetent, but just not thought through. But if it truly is, now what we're hinting at, which is just commentary on the horror genre itself, then it becomes almost brilliant.
SPEAKER_13You mean it's a piece of as a piece of meta commentary or satire? Satire, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, without question. There's no way that these filmmakers were taking this material seriously. I mean, look at what we're looking at. There's just no way.
SPEAKER_11Right. Yeah, I I like it a lot more now that I kind of realize now that I've talked through it, I kind of have more appreciation for it. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, yeah, I agree. I used to run well, like I started uh I used to not like this movie, but this is actually a really fun entry. It's I it gets a bad reputation because Jason is not the killer, but honestly, four movies in, it was a nice it's a nice reprieve. Part five is a nice reprieve. Yeah. Well, it's not a re it's not a it's not a reprieve from sex, drugs, and murder, but it it's a reprieve from Jason, temporarily.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, a little different. What do you think, Jonathan?
SPEAKER_10Um, I'm probably uh still not it's not it's not my cup of tea.
SPEAKER_13You're not buying it. We haven't changed our mind. I'm not quite there.
SPEAKER_10I'm not quite there. It's worth a shot. But you know, I mean, maybe if we uh maybe if we do another podcast on just five, no convince me.
SPEAKER_11No, I'm not watching it. I don't like it that much. No, I'll re-watch these in a number of years. I I I I often come back to this franchise.
SPEAKER_13Number of years?
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Friday the 13th is in uh what? Oh uh nine days? I'm watching these next week.
SPEAKER_11I'm not. But I am glad that I uh I'm glad that I watched him. Alright, cool. Let's move on.
SPEAKER_17Friday the 13th, Jason Lives, 1986. Directed by Tom McLaughlin. Budget 3 million. Box office 19,500,000.
SPEAKER_19This is between me and Jason.
SPEAKER_13Jason belongs in hell as long as he gets there.
SPEAKER_19Jason's alive. We dug up his body. You gotta do something. No one in Forest Green wants to be reminded of what that maniac did here. That's why we changed the name. People want to forget this was crystal late.
SPEAKER_18Just because our parents keep telling us that Jason is only a legend doesn't mean it wasn't true. What if we did look at the camp count like the cause draft?
SPEAKER_15Darren, we better turn around.
SPEAKER_12What?
SPEAKER_15Because I've seen enough horror movies to know any weirdo wearing a mask is never friendly.
SPEAKER_11They really want you to know Jason is back, don't they?
SPEAKER_13Dude, Jason is back. Jason is back. Fans of this franchise did not like having Roy Burns as the killer. So guess what? The man behind the mask is back. Just ask Alice Cooper. Part six. Released on August 1st, 1986, is the return of Jason Forges. It's the sixth installment in the Friday the 13th franchise. A lot of Friday the 13th experts and enthusiasts traditionally and consistently have this in the top tier of any ranking list. Um, a lot of people think this is the best. A lot of say this is follows closely behind part four. I think this is I I deviate between six and three. This is 100% though one of the best directed films in the franchise. Commandeered by another Friday film director I've met, Tom McLaughlin, who is one of the nicest guys I've ever met. If you're not familiar with his filmography, he doesn't have uh much of one, but honestly, he doesn't need one. He directed a Friday film, that's all he needed. Before he uh made this movie, he did 1983's One Dark Dark Knight with Meg Tilly. It's an odd movie, is what I'll say.
SPEAKER_11But compared to this, yeah, it is fantastic. This is a great looking movie. The production values really shot up to about the highest they're gonna get, you know, until things, you know, the silly movies later on. But yeah, this is very well made. So far in the series, this one definitely looks the best.
SPEAKER_13Well, CJ Graham is credited as Jason Voorhees um stunt man Dan Bradley, who would go on to be a moderately successful second unit director. I believe he's the helmer of the Red Dawn remake, which is not a good movie. Uh Dan Bradley appears as Jason in the paintball scene, but if you watch it real carefully, Jason's a little overweight, and his movements aren't as graceful, so he's replaced with CJ Graham. And I I like CJ Graham as Jason, and the only criticism I have of this movie is I wish he I wish Jason was shot a little differently, in a more menacing way. Pay attention really carefully to how John Carl Beakler shoots Kane Hotter in part seven. He is shot as a menace, and actually Steve Minor does this to Richard Brooker in part three. That's my only criticism of this film. Otherwise, it's it's near perfect. This is the first and only film in the series to receive generally positive reviews, if you can fucking believe that. Yeah. It's also long before Scream, the first horror movie I can remember, that's very, very subtly in some regards, meta. Very meta. I mean, the opening titles when he comes out James Bond style, that's all you need to know, man. That's the movie you're getting.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, you you know you better pay attention to this. This is this is gonna be subtly.
SPEAKER_13This also introduces Jason as a supernatural force. Um he becomes what a lot of people call uh meta zombie Jason. He's undead, supernatural, superhuman, and I believe this becomes the standard depiction for the rest of the uh series. Uh this is also a gothic film and very Frankenstein-esque.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, this is what when people think of Jason Voorhees, that it iteration of it starts here. It's and I tell you. When I just recently watched this, I had the same reaction that you did. I'm like, man, this has got to be one of the best ones in this in this thing.
SPEAKER_10100%, right? Yeah. And I would argue, I would argue the opening of this film is maybe the the best 10 minutes of any Jason movie. I would agree. I would agree.
SPEAKER_13Um ever seen.
SPEAKER_10It's fantastic. The production quality is amazing. The lightning and explosion effects is like fucking awesome. Jason's just makeup design, and when he's in the coffin with all of the creepy crawlers all over him, and he, you know what I mean? And then when he gets up and you get the maggots coming out, and it's just so well done. Like they've just really amplified all of it where they should have done that earlier in the in the series. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Do you remember, John, when we were talking about the action and stunt pieces? This film introduces not only gothic fiction, meta humor, but a lot of action film elements, including shootouts, and there's a car chase, and there's a terrific RV stunt.
SPEAKER_11Oh, yeah. There is, yep. There's legit stunts in this for bigger budget movies, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Why does the why does the sheriff look like a young John Carpenter?
SPEAKER_13Oh, uh David Kagan, Garrett? Yeah, he's good. You're right.
SPEAKER_11Stay away from that boy. The basic premise of everything. Everybody suspicious of Tommy Jarvis now. I think that works for me because Tommy Jarvis not only has to deal with the Jason thing, which which he brought back, so deals with that guilt, but he's also everybody's after him, the police force and all that stuff. So it is different. There's different elements in this. So I do dig that.
SPEAKER_13I believe this is the feature film debut of t of actor Tony Goldwyn, if I'm not mistaken. He plays Darren. He's awesome.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I mean, there's good stuff. All these scenes, all of the set pieces are really well shot and really well done. Like that one. That one's good. You know, the guy's standing in the road, and you know, the kills are gnarly.
SPEAKER_13I think it's also one of the best edited in the series. Now, I realize that's a generally low bar, but um it's it's an 88-minute movie. It moves lightning fast. It's very efficient.
SPEAKER_11This is the one where the girl is in the RV and gets her head shoved through the wall, right? Of the RV. Oh, that's fantastic. That's a good one, man.
SPEAKER_10So good. Reminds me of a T1000 with her face molding to the metal. It's good.
SPEAKER_13It's it's so simple the way they did that. It's not my favorite kill in the movie, but it's certainly up there.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I like that little. I mean, even the sound effect that with the metal bending. You know? Yeah, very it's very cool. It's very cool. But now, by this time, Jason is the star. 100%. Truly the star of the franchise. He has become the protagonist. What a great entry into the franchise. This one, this one really cooks, man.
SPEAKER_13This has just as much satire, if not more, than the previous entry. I love the line when Martin the Gravedinger is commenting at Jason's Jason being uh dug up by Tommy. He he looks up at the camera, breaks the fourth wall, and he goes, Some folks have a strange idea entertainment. That's great. Fucking great.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, the gore is turned up considerably in this, and the kills are a lot more elaborate. I think they knew where their bread was buttered. Gotta crank it up. We can't get away with just a bunch of stacks.
SPEAKER_13No nudity, though.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, that is interesting. Interesting choice.
SPEAKER_13There is one sex scene. Yeah. Um, I think that uh Tom McLaughlin's wife was on set with him a lot. She plays the American Express girl that's killed. By the way, pay attention. She's almost literally killed in this movie. Uh when he puts that giant spear through the through the window of the car, watch it go off kilter, she almost gets gutted there. Anyway, yeah, there's one sex scene, but very little nudity, and this is the this is the first Jason movie where we have camp and camp counselors and the children attending that camp. So there's a lot of stakes. Yeah, the stakes are a lot higher.
SPEAKER_11Finally, you finally see some kids in these Yeah, no shit. In this camp. All these camps, no kids. There's so many funny things. I like when uh Tommy Jarvis first runs to the police station to report what's going on. As soon as he goes in there, the freaking dippy pulls a gun on him. I'm like, is this what happens every time somebody comes to the police station?
SPEAKER_13Where the red dot goes, you bang.
SPEAKER_11The lead girl, Jennifer Cook, it was Megan, right? I think that's the lead. Yeah. She's she's good. She's good. Yeah. Yeah. By now, I think they were taking, or at least they were reaching deeper into the pool of actors that they had access to. Tom Matthews, you know, pretty well known. He was in uh Return of Living Dead. Return of the Living Dead, you know, and part two. And part two part two. Um Ron uh Palillo at the beginning. Well, welcome back, Cotter.
SPEAKER_13Horshack. Horseshack is back. There's one thing that I noticed that you guys will find interesting. John, you specifically, since uh you're a true believer. Jason Lives is the series' only explicit reference to God. Uh during the climax, uh the one of the little girls, um, Nancy, played by Courtney Vickery, is praying. Oh, yeah. And she's scared by Jason. And then listen to this. This is another thing that's interesting. John Shepard from part five was asked to reprise his role as Tommy Jarvis from the previous film. However, he had reservations because he was an evangelical Christian. But when he read the script, based on that scene I just discussed where Nancy is praying, he almost took the role, but ultimately decided to film a film titled Caught and then retired from acting to literally join their seminary, enter Tom Matthews. And I'm I love the fact that Tom Matthews is in this because he's fantastic.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, he's he really is good. You might find this interesting, Jonathan. Kevin Williamson told director McLaughlin that this film had a huge influence on him growing up, and that's one of the reasons he wrote Scream.
SPEAKER_10Interesting. I mean, you can tell. You can certainly tell.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_10But that's really cool.
SPEAKER_11When people think of Friday the 13th, they often do think it's just like a horror franchise with a guy who just kills people, but a lot of these things are a lot more clever than they're given credit for.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, and I think I think the humor in this one is elevated. I mean, think of like when he offs the paintballers and he like throws the dude with machete, and then like he realizes that he accidentally like ripped his arm off. You know? And he like he just like has the machete, but then he looks down and sees his severed arm.
SPEAKER_13The smiley faces and blood.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_13When he slams their heads into the tree.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, that's it's it's good stuff. It's not it's not just goofy, it's it's self-aware, you know.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, the meta humor in this is I love the sequence between the two little boys, and he goes to his pal and he goes, So what did you want to be when you grew up? That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_11That is so funny.
SPEAKER_13What about the look of this? This is the first Jason movie shot in Georgia.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_13Uh Covington, near Atlanta, and you can definitely tell the woods are thicker. It's significantly different than three and four, which are California, and five. Not quite as beautiful and serene as one and two, but it's it's got a better look. Like it's the forest is far more believable. We're actually on a real lake.
SPEAKER_11Agreed. I also think it's interesting that the in the movie they changed the whole name from Crystal Lake. Now the town is forest green, and they just want to put Crystal Lake behind it. It didn't take though, because it's back to Crystal Lake, the next movie. How hard is it to change the name of a whole town and then just change it back?
SPEAKER_13Apparently, not very difficult because they did it. Sounds like a golf course. It does. It does. Uh, we should talk about the kills. Um, the original cut of this movie had 13 killings as an in-joke, but in order to appease Studio Brass, Tom McLaughlin had to add an additional three killings, bringing up the total to 16. These killings were Martin the Gravedigger, uh, the recently engaged couple played by Roger Rose and Cynthia Kaney. By the way, that scene makes no sense. None. Zero.
SPEAKER_11It's a weird studio note, you know, if you've already got 13 murders in a film, and they're like, nope, not enough.
SPEAKER_13This film also had a lot of controversy with its ending. In the original script, the movie was supposed to have concluded in the graveyard. Listen to this, with Martin the gravedigger meeting Jason's father, Elias, a previously unseen character in the franchise. The studio, of course, did not like the scene, as they did not want the responsibility of having to introduce his backstory in the next installment, which would be John Carr Beagler's part seven. Additionally, the added murder of Martin made the scene of Continuity Air. Not only that, and by the way, this scene was later storyboarded for inclusion on the film's deluxe edition DVD release. Uh, the ending. McLaughlin ultimately shot three endings, two of which were not included in the previously mentioned DVD release. In one ending, Jason's mask floats to the surface, having become detached during his struggle with Megan and Tommy. In another, Deputy Rick, played by Vincent Gustaferro, tries to reach the jail cell keys after having been locked in by Tommy and Meghan. The door of the police station then opens and the film ends, I guess indicating that Jason managed to get free. Production Brass disliked both of these endings, as one left Jason's survival generally ambiguous.
SPEAKER_08Right.
SPEAKER_13Um, as a result, Nick also shot the film's used ending. 50% of it, I shit you not, was shot in his father's backyard pool. You can pretty much tell which shot. It's pretty good. That's pretty cool, though. Also got an awesome fucking soundtrack, including He's Back, the man behind the bastard, Alex Cooper.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, the the song, they actually do have a legitimate soundtrack on it.
SPEAKER_13With songs of note, so we tried to get I've No Animal by Felony, uh, the first skeletons in the closet. I love that song. Yeah. But it's also got Teenage Frankenstein and Hard Rock Summer by Alice Cooper.
SPEAKER_11Fantastic soundtrack. Oh, yeah, yeah, really good. Earlier before, he used to talk about the stunt with the um camper. Oh, the RV. Yeah, which is good. There's an awesome shot when it's sitting there on fire, Jason's standing on top of it. What an awesome shot, man. That's Jason right there. That is Jason.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, the visuals in this are fantastic.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's like now he's kind of assumed the role of superhero, right? Yeah. And I love I love how the shot looks. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13That's a great one. There is one thing I wanted to mention about Tom McLaughlin. Like I told you guys, I'd met him before. Great guy. There's something he did on the set of this movie that is real commendable. So not only did the producers of the movie wanted the body count upped, they also wanted nudity. Tommy Mack was pressured by producers to have Darcy Damas remove her shirt during the RV sex scene. He backed her up when she refused, which I thought was pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, that's good. I didn't really miss it. Well, you you miss it on a certain level because you're like, where is it? You know what I mean? Because it's expected, right?
SPEAKER_13You think something's wrong or it was cut. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11Because you can pick out which girls are gonna show the goods right as soon as you meet them in the other movies. It's just obvious. Yeah. Jennifer Cook, this is the last thing she did. She just didn't act after this, you know. So that's weird because she was really good.
SPEAKER_13She plays Elizabeth Maxwell in the 1984, 1985 run of the series V, which I love. Oh, right, right. But yeah, she retired from acting. I don't blame her. Any any smart person should. Hollywood is a black hole.
SPEAKER_11Well, that's true. But she's great in this. She really is.
SPEAKER_13She's not my favorite, but she's probably in my top. I would say my top oh god, there's so many that I like. Yeah. I I I don't know if she's in my top three, but she's certainly in my top five. I told you who my top my my number one is. Right. But yeah, she's she's good. I like her. I like this cast a lot. This is this is a very inoffensive cast. They all have good chemistry together. And like I said, I love the inclusion of the children in this. Right. This is a very playful entry. It's playful like three, but it's not as mean-spirited as four or five.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I don't know. There's just something about it that that feels a little softer, you know. Even though all the kills are cool. They're just they're not like they're not offensive, they're just fun. You know, they're just fun. It's not gratuitous.
SPEAKER_13No. Not at all. This also feels like uh it's a universal Frankenstein. It's a mod it's a universal monster movie, but it also feels like a hammer film at some points, too. Just fun.
SPEAKER_11This is actually a good script. You know, I know I put down the scripts sometimes, but this actually is written really well.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, and I would also argue similarly how I said the first ten minutes is some of the best Jason shit that you'll see. I'd say the last ten minutes is equal, equally as awesome.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_10As far as the climax goes and an ending to one of these films, like I'll take this over most of the others.
SPEAKER_11Right.
SPEAKER_13Oh, the ending is iconic. In fact, I'm sure you guys have seen the iconic final shot of Jason. I've seen that in multiple fish tanks over the years from horror films, which is absolutely hilarious.
SPEAKER_10It's so cool how they did the action sequence in the lake and like with the fire, and I just it's it's awesome. It's so well choreographed. Yeah. I love that Jason just gets fucked up by the propeller. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13And they did this for three million dollars, which is pretty incredible.
SPEAKER_11That's that is because you know prices have gone up through the years, and look what they were able to do with the same working budget as the movies that came before.
SPEAKER_13You know, John Carpenter did A Live and Prince of Darkness each for about the same price tag. No kidding. Astounding. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11Isn't that astounding? Yeah. There are good kills in this. Let me tell you what my favorite one is Sheriff gets bent in half.
SPEAKER_07Yep, yep, that's my favorite.
SPEAKER_13Yep.
SPEAKER_11I had that on here too.
SPEAKER_13Yep. That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_11That's funny, man. And Jason gets shot a lot. He does. And he's super present. Like earlier when I said Jason is now the star of these movies. Dude, he is all over this movie. I mean, he probably appears more than anybody, any other character in the film.
SPEAKER_13This isn't the beginning of um time traveling, Jason, but he does move around when he fucking wants to. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, well, that's true.
SPEAKER_13Seven is worse.
SPEAKER_11I'm not going to go into like how he got that rock in the boat and all that stuff. I couldn't move that rock. Yeah. Don't worry about that. Hey, you know what?
SPEAKER_13Uh a PA brought it to him off the show.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_10But it works. It works.
SPEAKER_11It's a cool plan. Yeah, it's a cool plan. I I don't know where the I don't know where the logic comes from about, you know, the only way to stop him is to return him to the lake from which he was born or whatever. Okay. If you say so. Man, it's poetic.
SPEAKER_13Oh, he gets it, he gets it from the books. He gets it from the books.
SPEAKER_11I guess. How would they know? I mean, I don't know.
SPEAKER_13It's like once again, once again, this is this is my one criticism of the writing. If they would have tied that back to things. Remember, he's lived here his whole life. If they would have tied that back to lore he learned as a child, where someone, some old timer, like for example, the guy with the eyeball in part three, he's you know, or Crazy Ralph said, You gotta drown Jason again, this would have made perfect sense. They could have easily wrote that into the narrative. Right, right.
SPEAKER_11If that truly is the only way to stop him, then why were they digging him up in the first place? They told him off screen how to do it. Yeah. So I think that's our standing response to all of this stuff. Um, but you know what? And all of the stuff we're talking about, wouldn't it be interesting if they had known this all the plan and the lore ahead of time when they mapped the top thing out from the beginning? That you'd be talking about one kick-ass franchise if they had a consistent plan for it. You know what I mean? They would have been able to do some really, really cool things with the franchise.
SPEAKER_13I mean, yeah, but I I like the spontaneity of the franchise. You have a lot of guys taking risks. You know what I like about this franchise? I like the outlaw nature of it, which is they're just kind of winging it. I do like that. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Like they're c they're clearly winging it.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, it is neat that they each have their own, they're they're each their own thing.
SPEAKER_13They are. Jason's the always got his own look, each film, which I kinda like. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. It's like a different interpretation each time. Yeah, I I think this is a high point in the series.
SPEAKER_13Is this the best film so far in the six we've covered?
SPEAKER_11I'm gonna say this and one are my favorites so far.
SPEAKER_13What do you think, Schiff?
SPEAKER_10Yeah, I would agree. Probably this one and the first one are gonna be my favorites. Once we get through this one, I like the later installments just because they're so preposterous. Yeah. I don't actually like them because they're good. I think this is one of the only good movies in the franchise. Yeah. Objectively good.
SPEAKER_13Even critics liked it. Well, some critics liked it.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, some critics. Some critics wouldn't would never like it. They'd never lower themselves to liking something so lowbrow. You know, I have an affinity for Roger Ebert. I've always liked him, I've followed him, I bought his books. He's a very good writer. My tastes kind of aligned with him a lot of the time. And I know that he tears some things like this apart, like, you know, Friday 13th, 2 or 3, and he would write, you know, this is trash, it's not, you know, it's they could have done a better job. But you know what? I bet on his days off when he puts in a movie, god dang it, I bet he puts in like Friday the 13th, part two, and just eats popcorn, has a good time, man, has a beer. Yep, yeah.
SPEAKER_13Well, you know, but you critics, but you critics that spent so much time trashing this the this series, they've watched all of them. Right. By the way, Gene Siskel said in his review of this in 1986, this was good enough to be the best film in the series, but he still only gave it one and a half stars, which is bullshit.
SPEAKER_11Well, w what's he comparing it to? That's the reason I just I'm not on board with like critics who do it as a job. I think they take their criticism too seriously. They want to be respected. I just don't think they have enough uh respect for who the audiences of these films actually are.
SPEAKER_13No. No, they're just they're they're elderly curmudgeons. Yeah. You can't tell me that Siskel couldn't agree, like Shifley said earlier. The opening of part six is one of the most effective pre-credits horror sequences ever. Yeah. If he was to deny us that, well, he's dead, so he can't answer, but you know what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, it's it's almost like these critics are afraid to give something a good review.
SPEAKER_13I don't know if it was political on their part, or they were trying to appease I once again, I I'm not really certain. I know there was backlash against the slasher movement in the 80s because of the violence and the sex. So I don't know if they were kind of sucking up to a coalition of people that wanted this eliminated from entertainment. I understand their vitriol towards a movie like Silent Night, Deadly Night in 1984. Like that I get. Scaring the shit out of kids where Santa is going down a chimney with a bloody axe. Okay, I get that. But they hated these movies.
SPEAKER_11I think all those are good points. It also might be that they were kind of they were kind of upset that they completely took over movies, the public consciousness and films. Yeah, and they did, you know, and they that's not the kind of thing they liked. And maybe they thought the whole cinema industry, maybe the whole all cinema is burning down, you know, because everything's a slasher movie. And I I think that a a true critic has to put themselves in the shoes of the people who actually would like these films. Maybe Gene Siskel and his wife, maybe they're not the audience. I mean, we know they're not the audience.
SPEAKER_13If you're if you're going to a drive, if you're 18 years old going to a drive-in to watch this, you know, uh what I like to call a hand job movie, like it's it's a perfect movie for that. And they clearly perfect these guys were clearly not engaging with the correct audience. No. Because these movies, and theatrically speaking, I've only seen a couple of these theatrical, and let me tell you, they are a fucking blast, regardless of your age. Yeah, they are.
SPEAKER_11That's maybe if I can find a review from Roger Ebert online, I'll throw it in here every once in a while.
SPEAKER_04Now that scene demonstrates a very common and probably very significant technique that's used again and again in these films. We view a scene through the eyes of the killer. You never saw the driver in that last scene. Instead, you saw everything through the driver's eyes. Now, in the traditional horror movie, we often saw things from the victim's point of view, but that's no longer. Now we look through the killer's eyes. It's almost as if the audience is being asked to identify with the attackers in these movies, and that really bothers me. That's a very good point.
SPEAKER_13Once again, they're a little bit more positive about this one than than others.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. Sure. Ebert's got a really sharp wit, and he can he can splinter a filmmaker's dreams by his insults. I mean, he can be pretty insulting.
SPEAKER_04This is another film uh now that is very much of an unpleasant discovery. It's an unpleasantly, absolutely reprehensible little sleaze pit of a movie named Friday the 13th, part two. And of course, this is a sequel to last uh Summer's movie, Friday the 13th, and it's a continuation of the senseless, gruesome, violent murders we saw in that first film. When we did our special edition of sneak previews on a movie violence directed against women a few months ago, Friday the 13th is one of the movies we attacked. Well, Friday the 13th, part two isn't just against women, it's against everybody. They saturate television with a violent ad campaign, hope to make their money quickly before word gets around on how scummy the movie really is.
SPEAKER_13And and he was for a lot of the films in the in the in the in the slasher lexicon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just go back and look at that review he does for 1984 Silent Night, Deadly Night. It is fucking brutal.
SPEAKER_11That's right. But uh, I think we can all agree on on all aspects. Uh shooting, editing, the lighting is great, the acting is really solid. This is a top Friday movie.
SPEAKER_13If you were to state to me right now this is the best movie in the franchise, I don't think I'd argue with you. No, you don't I don't think there's any good entries in the new line uh canon. I don't like any of the new line Fridays, including Freddie versus Jason. What?
SPEAKER_11We'll get to that. Blasphemy We'll get to that.
SPEAKER_13Well, I know. I'm a par I'm a paramount guy. But we will get to that. We'll get to it.
SPEAKER_17End of part one.
SPEAKER_07He's back. He's from man behind the mask. And he's out of control.