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#46 - ACTION ICONS #4: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER
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Welcome to the 4th ACTION ICON episode and it's a BIG one, because my co-host Ben Lewandowski and I are discussing a true action film legend...ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER! Schwarzenegger has been gracing the silver screen for six decades and left a fascinating action filmography behind him.
Ben and myself each come to the show prepared with our ten favorite Arnold films as well as deep dive research into his career. We hope you enjoy this trip down action lane as much as we did!
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SPEAKER_32Welcome everyone to the fourth show in our action icon series. And today we are all about the Austrian Oak, Conan the Republican, the Governor. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we are tackling the career of the one, the only Arnold Schwarzenegger. With me tonight is certified Arnold Schwarzenegger expert, Ben Lewandowski. Are you feeling strong tonight, Ben? Get to the chopper. This is a big one. Arnold Schwarzenegger is um at this point, he's a true Hollywood legend, this guy. And not only in Hollywood, but just in general, as like a human being. You know, so you're the expert, Ben. I gotta tell you, I've I've been looking forward to this. I've been looking forward to this a lot. Um, hope you can tell. Can you tell us a little bit about Mr. Schwarzenegger?
SPEAKER_31We're gonna do a brief bio that gets us Awesome 1947 to basically the very late 70s, early 80s. Okay. Arnold Aloy Schwarzenegger was born on July 30th, 1947, in the village of Thal in the Austrian state of Styria. He was the second son of Gustav Schwarzenegger and his wife Aurelia. Gustav was the local chief of police and joined the Nazi Party in 1939. During World War II, Gustav served as a military policeman in the invasions of Poland, France, and the Soviet Union, including the Siege of Leningrad. According to Holocaust scholar Michael Barabaum, Gustav served in theaters of war where atrocities were committed, but there is no way to know from the documents whether he played a role. This is important because these facts would become a contentious part of Arnold's 2003 California gubernatorial recall election in which Schwarzenegger was elected. Gustav favored his elder son, Meinhard, over Arnold. His favoritism was strong and blatant, stemming from an unfounded suspicion that Arnold was not his biological child. He has also said that his father had no patience for listening or understanding your problems. In a 2004 interview with Fortune, Schwarzenegger said that he suffered what would now be called, quote, child abuse at the hands of his father. Quote, by Schwarzenegger, many of the children I've seen were broken by their parents, which was the German-Austrian mentality. They didn't want to create an individual. It was all about conforming. Therefore, I became a rebel. Arnold's father, Gustav, was an athlete. He wanted both of his sons to become champions in Bavarian curling. Influenced by his father, Schwarzenegger played several sports as a boy. He began weight training in 1960 when his football coach took the team to a local gym. At age 14 or 15, Arnold chose bodybuilding over football as a career. Arnold served in the Austrian Army in 1965 to fulfill the one year of service required of all 18-year-old Austrian males at the time. During his service, he won the junior Mr. Europe contest. He went A-Well during basic training to compete and spent a week in military prison. He was voted, quote, best built man of Europe, which made him very well known in bodybuilding circles. Schwarzenegger said the Mr. Universe title was my ticket to America, the land of opportunity, where I could become a star and get rich. Schwarzenegger made his first plane trip in 1966 to attend the NABBA Mr. Universe competition in London. He placed second, lacking the quote, muscle definition of American winner, Chester Jordan. 1967, Arnold wins the Mr. Universe title for the first time, becoming the youngest winner in that prestigious event's history at age 20. He would go on to win the title three more times. He then returned to Munich, where he attended business school and worked at Rolf Futter's Gym from 66 to 68, before returning to London in 1968 to win his next Mr. Universe title. Schwarzenegger, who had dreamed of moving to the US since age 10 and saw bodybuilding as his avenue of opportunity, realized that dream by moving to the U.S. on October 15th, 1968, at age 21, speaking very little English. He trained at Gould's Gym in Venice, Los Angeles, under Joe Wiener's supervision. In 1970, at age 23, Schwarzenegger won his first Mr. Olympia title in New York and would go on to win the title seven times. L.A. Wheakley wrote in 2002 that Schwarzenegger was the most famous U.S. immigrant who overcame a thick Austrian accent and transcended the unlikely background of bodybuilding to become the biggest movie star in the world. In 1977, Schwarzenegger's autobiography. It's pretty funny that he wrote one in 1977, and weight training guide, Arnold, The Education of a Bodybuilder, was a major success. That same year he posed for the gay magazine After Dark. He became a United States citizen officially in 1983. What a lot of people don't know is that by the 19 the late 1970s, when Schwarzenegger first started appearing in uh major Hollywood movies, he was already a millionaire. A lot of that had to do with uh a lot of uh real estate he had purchased uh in the early to mid-1970s. Schwarzenegger's goal was to become the greatest bodybuilder in the world, which meant becoming Mr. Olympia. His first attempt was in 1969 when he lost a three-time champion Sergio Olivia. However, Schwarzenegger came back in 1970 and won the competition, making him the youngest ever Mr. Olympia at age 23, a record that he still holds to this day. He continued his winning streak in the 1971 through 1974 competitions. For the 1975 Mr. Olympia competition, filmmakers George Butler and Robert Fior persuaded Schwarzenegger to compete again and film his training in a bodybuilding documentary called Pumping Iron. Schwarzenegger had only three months to prepare for the competition, after losing significant weight to appear in another film about bodybuilding called Stay Hungry, starring Jeff Bridges, that came out in 1976. Although lighter than usual, Schwarzenegger was once again in top form and won the title for the sixth consecutive time, beating Franco Colombo. After the contest, Schwarzenegger announced his retirement from professional bodybuilding. But he would come out of retirement again to compete in the Mr. Olympia 1980. Schwarzenegger was training for his role in John Millius's Conan the Barbarian, and he got into such good shape because of the running, horseback, riding, and sword training that he decided he wanted to win the Mr. Olympia contest one last time. He kept his plan a secret in the event that a training accident would prevent his entry and cause him to lose space. Schwarzenegger had been hired to provide color commentary for network television when he announced at the 11th hour that while he was there, why not compete? Schwarzenegger ended up winning the event with only seven weeks of preparation. Having been declared Mr. Olympia for the seventh time, he then officially retired from competition. This victory, subject of the documentary The Comeback, was highly controversial though, as fellow competitors and many observers felt that his lack of muscle mass, especially in his upper thigh region, and subpar conditioning should have precluded him from winning against a very competitive lineup that year. And we come to the end. By the time we hit 1978, Schwarzenegger wanted to move from bodybuild into acting, finally achieving it when he was chosen to play the title role of Hercules in New York, this of course comes out in 1970, credited under the name Arnold Strong. His accent in the film was so thick, his lines were dubbed during post-production. His second film appearance was his Hired Muscle for a Mobster in the Long Goodbye, 1973, directed by Robert Altman. And then, of course, Stay Hungry in 1976. Here's something that a lot of people don't know. He won the Golden Globe Award for New Star of the Year. Wow! Schwarzenegger would then draw attention and boosted his profile in the bodybuilding film Pumping Iron, 1977, elements of which were heavily dramatized. Interestingly enough, Schwarzenegger editioned for the title role The Incredible Hulk, but did not win the role because of his height. Schwarzenegger also appeared with Kirk Douglas and Ann Margaret in the 1979 comedy The Villain. In 1980 or 81, it's really unclear when Schwarzenegger would meet screenwriter and filmmaker John Millius. And as you know, the rest is history. And that brings us up to speed in the early 1980s.
SPEAKER_32So what you're saying is this is a fairly impressive individual.
SPEAKER_31Yes. I didn't even get into the bulk of his filmography. I didn't touch politics. I didn't talk about his his business dealings, his real estate. Yeah, there's a lot here. There's a lot. This is just the beginning.
SPEAKER_33Alright, well, I guess that's the show. Good night, everyone. Good night.
SPEAKER_32So the action icon series, as you know, Ben and I, we each pick our favorite. Well, I pick my favorite. I don't know what Ben does, but I pick my favorite Schwarzenegger films. Uh, did you find this to be tough, Mr. Lewandowski?
SPEAKER_31I did, because a lot of movies that I enjoy had to be cut. Yep. Yeah. I think you dealt with the same thing.
SPEAKER_32I did, particularly six through ten. I I think we're gonna find commonality on the you know the top of the list. But I tell you, there was a lot to choose from, and I did cut some stuff, and I played with the idea of doing twelve instead of ten, but I thought, no, that's you know, that's disrespectful to our other action icons. So I guess we're gonna stick with ten.
SPEAKER_05It's showtime.
SPEAKER_32All right, Ben, since you're the expert, in your opinion, uh, what is the tenth best Arnold Schwarzenegger-led film?
SPEAKER_31Shockingly enough, we're gonna go back to 1977 for the documentary slash docudrama bumping iron.
SPEAKER_17Welcome to this year's Mr. Olympia Championship.
SPEAKER_10There certainly has never been a competition like this before.
SPEAKER_20You have to do everything possible to win.
SPEAKER_22Just about on the left night. I said Louie is waiting for it in the shadows.
SPEAKER_20Not impossible for the last seven years.
SPEAKER_22You're gonna beat the biggest thing that everyone had on that platform at 275 pounds. They know that and he knows it.
SPEAKER_17He's in shape. All right. I hope he is.
SPEAKER_22Wherever you go to you pose down with let the judges make a comparison. Look at your arm, like you're admiring, and then you go.
SPEAKER_20When it comes to the day of the contest, I will mix him up. He will be ready to lose. I caught my mother yesterday already in a still one.
SPEAKER_22When we get up there, we have only one thought in mind. We're gonna win.
SPEAKER_10Very winner of the 1975 Mr. Olympia.
SPEAKER_22You'll never get this chance again.
SPEAKER_20Just gonna fix it up with your system.
SPEAKER_32I I actually really like pumping iron.
SPEAKER_31Me too, despite the fact that I don't give a rat's ass about bodybuilding, but yeah.
SPEAKER_32Well, I kind of do. I was always into it when I was younger. Um, but really, Arnold Schwarzenegger's just his personality just oozes out of that film. Oh yeah. Uh this guy was a star. You could just tell, even way back then. Before you go on, I just want to make a quick note of The Villain, because that is, believe it or not, one of the only one of the only films that we had on Betamax. So I just wanted to throw that out there.
SPEAKER_31Oh man, I miss some Betamax. Man. My father was a Betamax guru.
SPEAKER_32It was cool. Well, what is it about this movie that turns you on?
SPEAKER_31Well, you just said it. A lot of people are under the assumption that the John Millius film, which came out in 1982, or the James Cameron film that came out in 1984, made Schwarzenegger a star. But that's just simply not true. This movie was not only a box office success, but it made Schwarzenegger a household name. It also popularized the culture of bodybuilding, which was, let's be honest, somewhat niche at the time. It was. And it it also helped usher in the fitness craze of the 1980s, which includes aerobics, calisthenics, etc. Right. You can tell that Schwarzenegger was primed to become a star. He is electric in this. Uh incredibly charismatic, exceptionally arrogant, which is almost comical. Um, but there's a magnetism there, and you can't take your eyes off him. The movie's fairly simple. First off, this is not a true documentary. A lot of the scenes in this film were staged. So much so that remember the scene with Lou Ferrigno uh arguing with his parents at the kitchen table? Yes. This served as the catalyst for the famous scene in Saturday Night Fever with John Travolto. No kidding. Yeah, is that interesting? So this is directed by uh George Butler and cinematographer Robert Fiori and edited by Jeff Bartz and Larry Silk. It's inspired by the 1974 book of the same name by photographer George Butler and writer Charles Gaines. And for the most part, centers on the competition between Arnold Schwarzenegger and one of his primary competitors with the title Mr. Olympia, The Incredible Hulk himself, Lou Farino. The film also features segments on famous bodybuilders such as Franco Colombo, Mike Katz, Ken Waller, Ed Corney, etc. etc. I think this is not only a very well-made documentary, and that's the other thing, that it also ushered in an interest in American documentary filmmaking, which I think is interesting.
SPEAKER_32I can see that, but because it probably did better than I mean, I don't know if there's any kind of box office numbers on something like this, but I mean I liked it. I mean, I was really young when I saw it.
SPEAKER_31Dem domestic rentals uh for this film are only double its production budget. However, this came out as the home video market was just starting to take off. And by the time you get into the very early 80s, this was a mainstay, um, not only on pay TV such as HBO but uh beta. Right. Uh VHS was in its literally in its infancy.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, the thing about Lou Ferrigno, I gotta be honest, it it also not only is Arnold Schwarzenegger obviously just oozing charisma, I think the audience really identifies with Lou Ferrigno's his situation as well, because that's kind of like the flip side of what Arnold's going through. Arnold is positive all the time and basically at times kind of busting Lou Ferigno's balls. You know? Oh yeah. And uh Lou Ferrigno, you can tell he's super, super serious about what he's doing. And even though I know Schwarzenegger's serious too, he's having a great time. He's having a great time with this, you know.
SPEAKER_31Oh, he's just busting his balls because because that's how confident he was. I mean, it's almost ridiculous. Now, you could make the argument that Ferrigno could have easily won the Mr. Olympia that year. Um but Schwarzenegger was just too big. And I don't I don't mean his muscle definition, I mean his reputation, yeah, yeah. He's carrying American bodybuilding uh in this window of time.
SPEAKER_32I actually really do like Lou Ferigno. I mean, I I met him once, I wasn't too impressed then. I don't know, I'm not gonna go into it, but I did meet him once. But I loved The Incredible Hulk. I mean, for me as a kid, The Incredible Hulk, man, that was that was can't miss TV for me and my dad. Boy, that was a show.
SPEAKER_31Me too, man. I really dug that show. I used to wonder as a kid, like, I didn't know people could be green. Well, they can. One of the other things I like about this movie is its production history. Yeah. Director George Butler got 3,000 people to help finance this thing. And so basically, this is one of the first, like, modern crowdfunding.
SPEAKER_13Yeah.
SPEAKER_31Wow. He would go on to raise about $400,000. Schwarzenegger was at this point focused on becoming a professional actor in Hollywood, and he was reluctant to compete in another Mr. Olympia. But Butler offered to pay him $50,000 and then that changed his mind. No shit. Okay. The other interesting part about this is this actually began shooting in 1975, but production ran out of money and then went and ended up in development held for almost two years. Really? Yeah, George Butler had to go back out there and in in an effort to raise additional capital. He arranged an exhibit with the uh Whitney Museum in New York City, and bodybuilders would become uh ostensibly like uh living sculptures post posing on uh platforms that rotated. Oh, interesting. Okay. He hired Candace Bergen to be a celebrity commentator, Schwarzenegger agreed to appear because once again, at this point, he had he had won a Golden Globe for Stay Hungry, so this is the moment as this film is is gearing up for release. Schwarzenegger really starts to become a star. And then when this lands and is released, he's off to the races. So once again, by the end of 1977, Schwarzenegger was ostensibly a quote movie star already. So that's important to know. A lot of people just think he he gets cast in Conan off of a Austrian cattle boat, and all of a sudden he's like, No, he had been in the United States for some time.
SPEAKER_32Stop whining! Very cool, man. I I also am a fan of this film. It didn't make my list, but I am uh now that you you're really taking me back. You're really taking me back, Ben. Yeah, you're gonna be able to do that. I watched I watched this a few times when I was in the army when I actually was doing some power lifting, and I gotta say, Arnold Schwarzenegger was I I looked up to him. I honestly did, you know, on that part of his career, because he was so single-minded of purpose, and he laid out his whole life and damn near accomplished every single thing that he had decided to do.
SPEAKER_31All that all that drive and ambition and focus that resonated with us later and manifests itself later, whether it be Hollywood or politics or business, all of that can be witnessed in this documentary. And that's and that's and that's the thing. Like without I I firmly believe that without pumping iron, I don't know if we get to Conan, John. I don't know if we get to Terminator. I I I really don't, and that's that's why it lands at number 10.
SPEAKER_32Well, cool, man. That's awesome. Well, let me go with my number 10. Um, my number 10's a little bit later in his career, and it is 2014's sabotage. Get your weapons. Let's go.
SPEAKER_03I want to thank our field agents who put their lives at risk in combating drug organizations.
SPEAKER_08Clean up file for it. And what we don't need to be thrust.
SPEAKER_03The arrest today of a major cartel leader has led to a seizure of hundreds of millions of dollars. Ten million dollars is missing from a cartel box.
SPEAKER_02The only way to stop the cartel is to find out one of my own people.
SPEAKER_32Yep. And I had I had missed this one, and I just watched it maybe a week ago, and I wasn't sure because I thought I had my list down. I really did. I thought I had it down, but there were a couple films that I hadn't seen. So when I saw that David Ayre had uh written and directed this, I'm like, oh dude, I love David Eyre. So I checked it out, and you know what? I really liked it. I thought it was a great little film. So you had never seen this until I had never seen it. I had never seen it. No, and a little bit of what it's about. Uh members of an elite DEA task force find themselves being taken down one by one after they rob a drug cartel safe house. It's kind of a tin little Indians story, uh, which is cool. Which is cool, but you don't know who's by Behind it until later on. But I will say this Schwarzenegger is not a very likable character as this movie goes further and further on, particularly at the end. No, um, but I like it. He plays John Breacher Wharton, DEA's special operations team. And yeah, I kinda like the setup. What you kind of know that they're on the take right at the beginning, which I also kind of like, when they go into the drug house, uh, burn the money, but they save just enough money, $10 million, put it down the sewer, and we're gonna come back later and get it. And when they go to get it, it has already been taken. So then they can't trust each other. And this is a fairly dysfunctional team, I gotta say.
SPEAKER_29Yeah, at the very least.
SPEAKER_31Great uh fantastic cast, by the way. I think.
SPEAKER_32Oh, great cast.
SPEAKER_31Terrence Howard, Sam Worthington, Harold Pernio, Martin Donovan.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. Josh Holloway's in this.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, Josh Holloway.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. I like Joe Mangiello, and I didn't have no idea this guy was this big. He's very big in this.
SPEAKER_31Oh, he's a he's a magic mic dancer.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, he is. He's that. He we played um Flash Thompson in uh Sam Raimi's Spider-Man. And he's come a long way since that, obviously. But dude, he's I I I think the cast is great. I mean, that's a good point, man. The cast is really awesome in this.
SPEAKER_31Fantastic.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it really is. And it's it's dark, you know, which I really like. I really appreciate this. It's violent as hell, too.
SPEAKER_31It's exceptionally violent, yeah, but it's David Ayer.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, of course. And he's a good writer. David Ayer's done a lot of great stuff. Here, let me read this to you. This is a kind of a compilation of reviews from the film. Uh, sabotage delivers brutal, well-executed action sequences and a gritty atmosphere that some appreciate for its raw intensity. However, the film suffers from a poorly constructed screenplay that drags, excessively profane dialogue that feels unnecessary, and slow pacing that undermines the thriller elements. The ensemble cast and Schwarzenegger's darker role receive mixed reactions, with some finding the characters unlikable and poorly developed, while action fans may enjoy the violent set pieces, the weak writing and ponderous storytelling disappoint many viewers. Um I don't know. I don't know. I I I think uh I think it's written fine. I have no real problem with it. Because it really all it is is just one murder after another. You know, I mean how much it really is. I'm not gonna read too much into this.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_32But I I I do like it, uh, and he's really good in it. You know, Schwarzenegger is he's really good. But I gotta tell you, it's it's there's some disturbing things in it, particularly Schwarzenegger watching the the video that the cartel sends him of the rape and murder of his wife and child. I mean, that's pretty dark. And he he he he watches it several times through the film just to remind himself of what his you know ultimate mission is, and he really doesn't care about the harm that comes to anybody and his team. That's the interesting thing about it. At the end, you know, it's he's only got one mission, and his team basically, even though he plays like they are, you know, let's all do this together, we're all a family. At the end of the day, he's he doesn't really care that much.
SPEAKER_31No, they are not. He's single-minded of purpose.
SPEAKER_32He is revenge. And that's what I like about this, you know. I did think the end was kind of uh anticlimactic a little bit.
SPEAKER_31Um I was gonna okay, so here's the one thing I like about the actual ending. Does this ending, I mean the final like two minutes of this, does that look familiar to you? Does it look familiar? Why is it? It's based on something else. There I have absolutely no doubt that David Ayer is a huge fan of Bill Freaking Sorcerer. The ending of Sabotage is lifted right out of that, dude. Yeah, and actually when I get to that ending, I'm like, you know what? Because I I gotta be honest, I'm not a huge fan of this, but I I love that ending.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, um, I think I like it because of the ending. I mean, the last 20 minutes when I realized what kind of character Schwarzenegger actually was playing, uh, I ha I had some respect for it. You know, I had some respect for it. He's not a good guy.
SPEAKER_31It's a dark, cynical movie, and his character is representative of that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, it really is. But yeah, I uh I picked it as my number 10. I got uh no real problems with it. I mean, uh it's if you like violent action, I mean, I think this is the way to go. Bullshit. I'm shocked that you picked this. It dude, it could have been one of five different movies. You know what I mean? I was like you know, I was like taglines. Yeah, we're getting back to the taglines. Leave no loose ends. Um nice. That's good. Yep. Second one, ten men, ten million, zero trust. If you don't want to think too hard and you like like gruesome violence, uh this is the movie for you. Because there's some gruesome shit in this movie, boy. Like the the RV train gag, which is a great, which is a great set piece.
SPEAKER_30All the set pieces in this are are are actually quite good.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah. And they're timed out. Uh, like I said, it's uh Ten Little Indians, so you've got one literally about every, I don't know, eight minutes. You know, eight to ten minutes, you got another, you know, gruesome murder. So if you're into that kind of thing, there you go. This is the movie for you. Cool, Ben. All right, number nine. What'd you think, man? What's your uh ninth favorite Schwarzenegger-led film?
SPEAKER_31I'll probably let you take the lead on most of this. Um but this one's gonna surprise you. Uh I'm going with one of the most uh insane filmmakers in uh the history of Hollywood, working with one of the other most insane directors in the history of Hollywood, 1982's Conan the Barbarian.
SPEAKER_06Between the time when the ocean strank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius, there was an age undreamed of. Hand on to this Conan, destined to bear the jewelled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure.
SPEAKER_31Directed by John Elias and written by Oliver Stone. How the fuck this even got made with those two at the helm is beyond me, but congratulations.
SPEAKER_32I love this movie.
SPEAKER_29You you and me both.
SPEAKER_32I've been a fan of Conan since I first saw it in the theater, and it really, really did something to me. It really transported me. You know? It's one of those films. It really transported me to a different time and place. And that doesn't happen all that much anymore, but when you're when you're young, it happens a lot more often. And man, did this movie do that for me.
SPEAKER_31So, interestingly enough, this had been in some stage of development since 1966.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_31Took him a while. That shouldn't surprise me. Um, early producers had considered I'm not making this up, Stallone, uh, William Smith, and Charles Bronson. Wow, okay. But by the time you get into the mid-70s, Dino DiLorentis had seen, once again, Pumping Iron. Right. And agreed that Schwarzenegger was perfect for the role for uh obvious reasons. Um he was. He was. And the best part about this is his lack of expertise with the English language was made irrelevant. Right. Perfect vehicle for Schwarzenegger. Yeah. Yeah. Now, are you gonna get all that muscle definition pushing that big um The wheel of pain? The the the quote wheel of pain? No, but you know what? I I'm not gonna read too much into that.
SPEAKER_32But yeah, but look look how efficient it was. You're talking like two minutes or less, you know, like a two-minute little bit, and you're you've dealt with it and it's done. It's a well-edited scene, too, yeah.
SPEAKER_31You can pretty much establish, yeah, he just said impressed us for or pushed us for about ten years and I just love the the feel of it, you know.
SPEAKER_32I love the beginning. Plus, there's a lot of like honest tragedy in it. And Schwarzenegger doesn't have to have to talk. He really sells it with his physicality and his expressions, and you know, I don't know, I just can't see I can't see anyone else in that part. Not at that time, anyway. I mean, he was a perfect representation of the Howard novels and comics and all that.
SPEAKER_31I can only assume that this is the type of uh archetype that that Robert E.
SPEAKER_30Howard was was thinking when he when he first developed Conan. I mean he's Schwarzenegger's perfect, literally perfect.
SPEAKER_32It's a dark movie, false of doom. James Earl Jones is uh he's he's menacing, and I love the I love the speech about uh power. You know, this is power boy when he just tells that girl to jump off the thing. That's what real power is.
SPEAKER_13You know what it is, don't you boy? Shall I tell you? Steel isn't strong, boy. Stronger. His power. The strength and power of flesh. What a steal compared to the hand that wields it. Look at the strength of your body, the desire in your heart. I gave you this. Such a waste.
SPEAKER_32There's just a lot of really interesting things in this, and it's a big movie, too. The uh set pieces are big, uh, that temple set is awesome. The music, can we talk about the music?
SPEAKER_31There's a Polodorus, man. What can I say? He's gonna show up in another movie here in this list, I guarantee it.
SPEAKER_32It's one of my favorite scores ever on a film. I'll just say that.
SPEAKER_31This gets the blood pumping, right?
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, it really does. How about you? What do you really like about this? Why'd you pick this?
SPEAKER_31You know what? I love first off, I I'm a huge John Millius fan. Oh yeah, me too. Me too. He see, he was a screenwriter uh before he became a new Hollywood filmmaker. Right. For those that are not acquainted with John Millius, he was um he was part of Apocalypse Now. He was part of Francis Coppola's uh American Zootrope. Right. So he had cut his teeth with some some real some real greats. Yeah. He's also the writer of Magnum Force. Uh I think he wrote Jeremiah Johnson for Sidney Pollack. Right. Yeah, yeah. He did Big Big Wednesday, the surfing movie. Right. Um I think he started directing in in I think Dillinger in '73, and then he went on to do I Wind in the Lion, which my father was a huge fan of that. Big Wednesday, Conan, of course, 1984's Red Dawn, which everyone loves.
SPEAKER_30Red Dawn, yep. He I didn't know this until recently, but he actually was credited with the story for Walter Hill's Extreme Prejudice, interestingly enough. Imagine that conversation of Walter Hill and John Millius.
SPEAKER_31Anyway, I'm just a huge fan of the night early 1980s to mid-1980s Sword and Sorcery films.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_31I always loved John Borman's Excalibur. And I think I saw Excalibur oddly enough before I saw Conan. But I like the vibe. Um it's a big it's a big movie. It's very deliberately paced. I think a lot of people, a lot of fans of Schwartz in there keep this off the list because it is it is a slower moving film, but that's on purpose, obviously. Yeah. It's just got a huge scope. And fundamentally, as you know, John, this is just a revenge movie. That's all it is. It's real simple.
SPEAKER_32It is. I'm a fan. I'm a fan. I I'm glad I got to see this in the theater back in the day. I was pretty young, but wow. Well, what an experience. And I've loved it ever since. I don't know how many times I've seen it, but a lot.
SPEAKER_31I did a rewatch, and one of the things I noticed is I thought I was gonna be bummed out by the movie's pacing, but it really works. It really does. And it's not as dated as you'd think.
SPEAKER_32It's a period piece. You know?
SPEAKER_31Very much so.
SPEAKER_32Those those survive better. No, I'm I'm impressed. The cinematography is beautiful. His uh compatriots that he pulls together. It's really funny. I'm so happy that this is on here. It's gonna be on here twice, I bet. Yeah. It might be, it might be. But first, let me go with my number nine. I just recently re-watched this because I thought I was gonna put it on, but I wasn't sure. But I went ahead and watched it, and I'm like, yeah, this deserves uh a second look. And it is 1999's end of days, directed by the one, the only Peter Hyams, who is great. So what's the day? Transport. Anyone supposed to?
SPEAKER_18Just some Wall Street scumbag. I took a bullet for you.
SPEAKER_08I protected you. You didn't protect me, you protected this uh body. What I want to know is why would a priest try to kill someone?
SPEAKER_27It's an awful lot that you don't know. You think you're seeing everything you have it. There are things you never dreamed of. There's another world out there.
unknownFuck I.
SPEAKER_28Oh, I think you know who I am. Take it to the day.
SPEAKER_29We really are.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I know we talked a lot about him in the Van Damme episode, having done Time Cop and Sudden Death. You could do a whole podcast in his filmography. Yeah, you really could. But end of days, um, an ex-cop must prevent a woman from burying the Antichrist. Yeah, that's about it. I mean, uh, we've seen movies like that before, but not with Schwarzenegger. Not with Schwarzenegger. And that's what's interesting about it. It's like a different role for Schwarzenegger. It's a dark movie. It's a dark movie.
SPEAKER_31You got Satan, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32In subject matter and just the way it's shot, it it's a it's a beautiful looking movie, but it's it's Peter Hyams, boy, that guy is talented. Because, you know, we mentioned it before. He he is his own cinematographer. So what you see is exactly what he wants. I bet the studios love that too. They get they get to double dip.
SPEAKER_29Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. But yeah, it's uh it was actually a pretty big hit. This was when Schwarzenegger was still very bankable. If I could back up for a second, by the time 2014 rolls around with Sabotage and other films, a lot of those did not make their money back. So Schwarzenegger was definitely out of his blockbuster days, but he's still dependable, still dependable, but the money wasn't like it was. Uh, and this 1999, this may have been s the last gasp of those truly big box office numbers that he was racking up.
SPEAKER_31I would say, interestingly enough, if I'm not mistaken, this was his comeback movie. That's how universally reviled 897's Batman and Robin was. I guarantee that that movie is not gonna end up on either of our lists. But I would say somewhere, okay, so I I would say this. Somewhere between this window and the release of the third Terminator film, I believe in 2003, somewhere in there is the beginning of the end. Because you've got you've got this, you've got end of days, you've got sixth day, you've got another comeback movie, at least for action, which is collateral damage, yeah, and then you've got T3, and after that, it's it's a slippery slope downward. But yeah, you're right. We're starting to get to the the end of him dominating the box office. But even if I'm wrong, this wasn't a box office bomb. I know it was expensive, but it didn't lose money.
SPEAKER_32No, no, this one, end of days, actually doubled its budget. Um the but get this. The estimated budget on this was a hundred million dollars.
SPEAKER_20Wow. I want to ask you a bunch of questions. I want to have them answered immediately.
SPEAKER_32So they they must have had some faith in in Arnold at the time, and it did gross um just shy of two hundred and twelve million um globally. So, yeah, I mean I'll take those numbers.
SPEAKER_31No, so he really wasn't he wasn't on the downswing yet.
SPEAKER_32Especially if you're gonna green light a movie of a hundred million dollars, they must have still had faith in his career.
SPEAKER_31So I had read many years ago that Jericho Kane was actually written for five foot seven Tom Cruise, but he turned it down to work on Magnolia. Uh it's odd that they moved on to Schwarzenegger so quickly. Like that's an odd casting jump.
SPEAKER_32One of the reasons I like this is the Schwarzenegger doing his thing. You know, I mean that's why. Yeah. Yeah. If you plug somebody else in there, it's not it's not the event of watching Schwarzenegger do something like this. Yeah, I I like it. It's cool. So I I don't know. There's there's cool stuff in it. There's a lot of uh there's a lot of fire gags, there's a lot of explosions in this thing.
SPEAKER_31There's a lot of generation one CGI fire, yeah. It's probably what the what was so expensive. There's a lot of that.
SPEAKER_32There's a lot of that, yeah, but there are practical explosions, you know. There's there's quite a few. There's a lot of fire in this thing. But yeah, there's there's some some CG stuff that and and you know, that stuff doesn't date all that well sometimes, but you know, but at the time, it was great. I'm not gonna boom on that, you know, but yeah, I don't know, dude. I I I do like it. I just like movies like this, where Satan comes to town, you know.
SPEAKER_31Remember, this was right this was released, if I'm not mistaken, Thanksgiving '99 before we so I think it was creeping people out.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. No, it's uh it's cool. Gabriel Burns' really good in it. And I don't know, the action is there. It's there.
SPEAKER_31I do think the movie relies too heavily on CGI. I would have liked to see a version without it. Yeah. Because I don't really think it's necessary, but I understand. Hollywood had a whole bunch of new toys you know at the end of the 90s and in the early 2000s, and they wanted to play with them. So I I kind of get it.
SPEAKER_32There are some some things that I scratch my head over, though. There's do you remember the there's this one priest who just can't be killed? I don't know why he just he just he's uh he's tries to assassinate uh Gabriel Byrne at the beginning and Schwarzenegger saves him, and then they shoot him, and then I mean this guy's just a tough guy. But when he finally gets his, when he's kind of crucified above his hospital bed, and when everybody shows up to kind of get him, you know, because he's crucified with scissors through his palms, right? And then when they come, you know, they're kind of packing up the body, and you look up and the scissors are still in the ceiling. And I'm like, that's a weird thing that nobody noticed. Why didn't they just take the you know that's a strange thing? Yeah. Or other things. Uh I Robin Tooney is fine in this. It's kind of a I'm not gonna say a thankless role, but it's not a really, really great role, but she does fine in it. And you got this scene where she's after she's worked out and she walks across the room and she just takes her shirt off before she goes into the uh bathroom to take a shower. And I'm thinking, this is 99, this isn't the 80s. That's something you would expect in earlier movies. It it stood out in a bad way.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, it it I agree. It makes no it makes absolutely no sense. There's a couple of moments like like like that. I'm not I wasn't particularly fond of the movie score. Either. I think John Debney did the music to end the days. It should have had like a harder edge score.
SPEAKER_32I don't even remember it.
SPEAKER_31That's one of the problems. It's just considerable.
SPEAKER_32There's a little bit of Prince of Darkness in this. That's the kind of score that you need.
SPEAKER_31Could you imagine if Carpenter would have scored a movie like this? I'm telling you right now, it would have changed the dynamic. I uh here's the thing, too. I I love Peter Hyams. However, I've read in the past that this movie was offered to I think Marcus Nispel, uh Sam Raimi, and more importantly, Guillermo Del Toro, who's an expert in gothic horror. Ooh, now that would have been. I wonder if this movie had a change of director and a a different score and consequently a different tone. Yeah. Because Schwarzenegger's not the problem with End of Days. It's not. My only issue with End of Days is the incredibly dated CGI. Looking back. Because I'd seen this recently. There's a lot of stuff I like about this.
SPEAKER_33Sure.
SPEAKER_31Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, looking back.
SPEAKER_32At the time.
SPEAKER_31It does have a great cast. Cast is great. Rod Steiger's in here?
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, Rod Steiger's good in this end. He's great. I don't know, man. I it's the best that they could do at the time. So I don't know. I sometimes I feel it's a little unfair to judge the technology by today's standards. You know? Because if we would have made it and someone had uh if we had a hundred million dollars, we probably would have done, you know, a lot of the same stuff. And so what? So it doesn't hold up. You know, neither does movies from the 1930s, you know, but hell, you know, who they're great, you know? It's not like King Kong is um, you know, like today, of course, we judge it differently, but back at the time, man, you'd have people fainting in the theater, you know?
SPEAKER_31So this did receive um three Razzie Award nominations. Worst actor, worst supporting actor, and worst director. Well, that sucks, because that's not true. There's nothing wrong with this. No, a lot of movies get Razzies that don't necessarily deserve them. I I I personally like End of Days. Um I'd actually like to see them try this again, honestly. A newer variant of this.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, and and they could, but honestly, I don't know if I would have been that interested in it if it wasn't Schwarzenegger. There's just something about him that you like seeing on screen. It's a different, it's a different gear for him.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, this is a different movie without him. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32It is, and I think he's good. There's a lot of great stunt work in this too. I like that when they're when Jericho is hanging out of the helicopter and it's flying chasing the uh that priest on the roof.
SPEAKER_29Yep.
SPEAKER_32There really is some good stuff. Peter Hyams, he knows what he's doing when it comes to stunts, you know, because we've talked about him before. Did you I he he he ripped off the time cop uh bus scene with the train scene?
SPEAKER_31I was gonna say, yeah, he did.
SPEAKER_32He must he must like that idea.
SPEAKER_31That's okay. That's that that was his idea. He can rip himself off. Do you do you find yourself enjoying this movie more because it has a um there's religious undertones, or is that generally irrelevant?
SPEAKER_32No, I that I I find that interesting. Anything to do with end of days, you know, the end times. Yeah, I think it's interesting. And I like how they they couched it by uh you know making up that little bit about the the number of the beasts being 666, but in reality everything is upside down, so it's 999. 999.
SPEAKER_31So there's also some good practical makeup effects work in here. I wish there was more.
SPEAKER_32I think that you're right about the CGI, especially at the end when the granddaddy Satan makes his appearance out of the floor. Um some of that stuff doesn't hold up. I mean, you know, but hold up to what? You know, I mean that's was my point earlier. I mean, that's that's what they could that's what they did at the time.
SPEAKER_31Like I said, Hollywood had a lot of a lot of expensive new toys in '99, and it wanted to use them. Um at the time, some critics said they were impressive. Now we look back and we're like, no.
SPEAKER_32But yeah, back then they were impressive. You know, one thing I will say that I do like the ending of this because they didn't pussy out. He does sacrifice himself. Spoiler alert. Spoiler over.
SPEAKER_31Believe me, the studio probably did not want that to happen because they're thinking franchise, but how can you do franchise? End of days two. Yeah, that's ridiculous. I'm sure they debated it. If it, you know, if the movie would have been a bigger hit, although it wasn't not a hit.
SPEAKER_32This movie is really, really dark. You know, it's uh literally there's not that much stuff in the daytime. It's just, I don't know. It's good. If you haven't seen this, give it a shot. If you're a Schwarzenegger fan, you should like this. Tagline The Ultimate Battle of Good Versus Evil. Uh, that's fairly generic. That's fairly generic on that.
SPEAKER_29That's incredibly generic, actually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32I dig it. All right, man. So that brings us to number eight, the eighth best Arnold Schwarzenegger film. What do you think?
SPEAKER_31Number eight. Oh, this is a fun one.
SPEAKER_32Oh, then I know what you're gonna say, but go ahead. I bet I know what you're gonna say.
SPEAKER_31Go ahead. The greatest action film director of the late 80s and early 90s, John McTiernan, made a movie with Schwarzenegger in 1993. You did not put this on your list. Co-written by Shane Black, by the way. Yeah. You put this on your list. Last action here is on the list.
SPEAKER_11Columbia Pictures is proud to present the screen's greatest action hero, Jack Slater.
SPEAKER_05Slater! Don't even focus, Slater, you hear me? Yes, yes, Lieutenant Governor!
SPEAKER_11Here's what I think the governor gets here call me. And Danny Madigan is his biggest fan. But tonight, a magic ticket is asked. Will get Danny closer to the action than anyone ever dreamed.
SPEAKER_10Who the hell are you? And you're going with it. Who is this sport? I don't even know this tip to a world that's bigger than life and better than real. You're really believed to get inside a movie, don't you?
SPEAKER_01On screen.
SPEAKER_19Could it speak to the drug dealer of the house picked? Have a nice day. Have it killed.
SPEAKER_11Arnold Schwarzenegger is Jack Slater.
SPEAKER_05Everybody down!
SPEAKER_10The last action hero.
SPEAKER_29I love this movie.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_32Okay, well then we're gonna have a we're gonna have a conversation then, because I just don't get it. It does not work for me. It's cool that you like it though.
SPEAKER_29Way ahead of its time.
SPEAKER_32Um maybe maybe it still is, because I still don't get it.
SPEAKER_31In fact, I've been seeing a lot of a lot of critics and fans reappraise this, which they should. I because it got it it got decimated at its time for of of release, even though it was not a box office bomb. But my b my lord, did people did critics not respond to this?
SPEAKER_32No, no. I I think it's I think my problem with it is it's just a one-trick pony. And even though there's cool stuff in it, you know, there is the way it takes on the the genre, the same way that like Scream takes on the horror genre. But I I don't know, and I I won't I want to like it, Ben, and you are the expert, so I guess maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't work for me.
SPEAKER_31I think a lot I don't think a lot of people would like it actually. Um if I was to make a Schwarzenegger movie that was ostensibly a parody of Hollywood action films, I honestly I would make it even more insane than this, but I'll take it.
SPEAKER_30I'll take it.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. I mean and maybe that is maybe that's part of my problem with it. Maybe it just didn't go far enough. Maybe there's not enough Monty Python in it or something, you know, for me. Because a lot of it, I know there's a whole bunch of jokes in it, but I just don't find it all that funny. It's it's interesting because you agree, you agree with everything that they're doing, but I think I just get tired of it really fast. And yeah. I'm sorry, dude. I just don't want to find it.
SPEAKER_31Oh, because of its because of its excess, yeah, yeah. It's it's it's excessively preposterous.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, and and we get it. I mean, after after 20 minutes, I get it, okay? So I'm like, um, and there's there are there are cool things in it, you know, and the kid is funny because he's he's the action like if you were a little kid, this you that would be you.
SPEAKER_01Wait, where are you going?
SPEAKER_32I'll be back. Ha! You did not gonna say that, did you?
SPEAKER_01That's what you always say.
SPEAKER_32I do. You see, it's it's that, and it's it's cute. I just don't find it all that funny. So that's kind of where I'm at. But what what really what turned you on about this?
SPEAKER_31What's interesting about Last Action Hero 2 is it is what happens when you have way too many cooks in the kitchen. Sure, sure. There was a lot of uncredited script doctors on this film, including Carrie Fisher and William Goldman. And what ultimately happened is the studio just kept meddling and meddling and meddling, and a lot of critics say that you just have a loose collection of scenes, like skits, they don't add up to a full movie. I disagree with some of that. But what I will say though is although this movie does really fall apart, not in the third act, but in the second act, it's so charmingly preposterous and sometimes like just bad, B movie bad, that's what I like about it. It was it was Schwarzenegger's first big epic failure. Right. And I think that's the film's legacy, which is unfortunate, because it's still a fun movie. Like I once again, if I was to make a parody film, it would resemble a lot of stuff here. Uh there's a lot of stuff that works. I love the relationship between Austin O'Brien, the the the the 10-year-old boy, who's the Jack Slater's biggest fan, and Nick the projection that's played by Robert Prosky. Tom Noonan is the Ripper is fantastic. Charles Dance's Benedict is also fantastic. My favorite bit is the you know the the the cliche in 80s films where the the captain of the lieutenant of the cops has just had it. That guy's played by Frank McRae. He's literally has steam coming out of his ears. And if you've seen as many action films as we have, this film does nail it. But once again, if you're if you don't vibe with the tone of this film, yeah, you're you're gonna get real tired of it really quickly. And hey, let's talk about the soundtrack really quick. Holy shit, dude.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_29Soundtracking this.
SPEAKER_31Now I realize the soundtrack doesn't necessarily save a movie, but it doesn't certainly hurt anything. Yeah, AC DC, you had Megadeth, Death Leopard, Anthrax, Aerosmith, Cypress Hill. And and once again, that's important because that's the movie's tone. It's literally all over the place. Right. And that's kind of what I did about it.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I suppose. Um, I do like the script. I mean, the script is sharp, and I did not know they had other people come in to do some tinkering with it, but it sure feels like a Shane Black film from that era.
SPEAKER_31It's also important to know that this movie was being tested literally four to five weeks after they finished shooting, and this had a fucking firm release date of June 1993. And they knew that Jurassic Park was opening around the same window, and McTiernan begged for more time. I honestly think had this been a Christmas movie, this would have fared better. There just wasn't any time.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, that's true. I mean, no one wanted to go up against Jurassic Park, but I guess the studios have to plug in something there. I mean, they've got a release schedule, so I guess they figured this was the best thing they could they could hope for. They're dependent on uh Schwarzenegger's appeal. But you can't beat the dinosaurs in that era. It's it's it's fine. Yeah, there's there's cool stuff in it. And I there are like scenes that I like in it, but I'm maybe like some of the critics as a whole. Um did you see this, John, when it first came out? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I saw all sorts of nigger stuff in the theater. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_31I I generally think that if you didn't dig this upon its the time of release, uh, which would have been in summer 93, it it it's not gonna improve with age for anybody. Like I was a huge fan of this, knowing that I just walked out of a bad movie. And that's probably remember, I'm a huge fan of the Canon Film Library. Sure, specialized in toxic waste, so yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It might be a tumor.
SPEAKER_32It's not a tumor. It's not a tumor at all. I've got no real issue with it, but it's definitely it's just not on my list, I'll just say that. Cool though. Cool, excellent.
SPEAKER_31Alright, uh, you got a tagline for this? Oh god, there's a couple of them, especially on the newer uh post mod uh one sheets. There's a lot of a lot of art on this. All the different releases. Yeah. By the way, on most of these, I I think on the theatrical one sheet for this, there is no tagline. It's just Schwarzenegger. Okay. Last action hero. Here's the one I was looking for. The tagline for this, on the alternate uh B one sheet, is the big ticket for 93, because he's holding up the ticket to the camera.
SPEAKER_32Oh, right, right. Here's man, I'm I'm not as disappointed in it because Schwarzenegger's in it. I think I'm more disappointed that uh McTiernan directed it. I think that's why. That's not what I wanted out of McTiernan.
SPEAKER_31Clearly, John, you haven't seen Medicine Man.
SPEAKER_32Uh, you you are correct. I have not seen Medicine Man.
SPEAKER_31What a filmography. Predator Die Hard, Hunt for Red October, Die Hard 3, Thomas Crown, Eaters of the Dead, and I'm not even gonna mention his movie in 2002. But yeah, um, he wasn't perfect, but no, I'm not disappointed. Like, this feels like a John McTiernan movie. It's just unfortunately very bloated. It's got 10,000 ideas when it only needs about 150.
SPEAKER_32Yeah.
SPEAKER_31By the way, Dean Semler shot this.
SPEAKER_32Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_31It does look good.
SPEAKER_32It looks a great looking movie, yeah. No doubt.
SPEAKER_31It's also got about 64 editors.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. Oh, well, there you go.
SPEAKER_31That's one of the once again, that's one of the things.
SPEAKER_32There's some trouble.
SPEAKER_31Yeah.
SPEAKER_29Alright, what do you got?
SPEAKER_32Alright, dude. My number eight. Yeah, I'm just gonna do cool. I'm going for it. 1985's commander.
SPEAKER_00They hunted him down. You know, Connor, we went to a lot of trouble to find him.
SPEAKER_11They murdered his friends, and they took the only thing he would kill for.
SPEAKER_28If he wants your kid back, then you gotta cooperate, right?
SPEAKER_11Now, somewhere, somehow, someone's gonna pay.
SPEAKER_17Remember telling when I promised to kill you last? I lied.
SPEAKER_11If it's a mission no man can survive. He's the man for the job. Arnold Schwarzenegger, commando it's body.
SPEAKER_32Fuck yeah. Directed by Mark L. Lester, uh, written by Joseph Lowe, Matthew Wiseman, and surprise, surprise, Stephen E. D'Sousa. That's right. Who wrote everything in this era? Music by James Horner. James Horner did this? Yeah, James Horner didn't know. I like James Horner. It's a great score. Yeah. No, wait a minute. Are you sure? I thought it was Goldsmith. It was James Horner Smith. I thought it was Jerry Goldsmith.
SPEAKER_31Because this the uh let's double check it. Hold on. I think it's James Horner.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it's James Horner. Is it really? I swear that this was because maybe I'm thinking of something else. I might be, because there's one movie here.
SPEAKER_31I I I think I know what I think I know what you're referencing. Okay. You are referencing. Yeah, we'll come to that.
SPEAKER_32Alright, great, great. A retired special forces colonel tries to save his daughter, who was abducted by his former subordinate. I tell you what, man, this movie boils down Schwarzenegger films to their base level. Alright? The absolute base level. It makes little sense. It's way over the top, and it is awesome.
SPEAKER_31This is probably this is I I guarantee you, if you were to survey a hundred Schwarzenegger fans, this film is gonna be in 99% of those top fans.
SPEAKER_32Oh yeah. Yeah, I just re-watched this last night. Uh I wasn't going to watch it because I thought I remembered it, but when I watched it, I'm like, no, I I forgot a lot of stuff. So I'm glad that I rewatched it.
SPEAKER_31It's always a great time to put Commando on.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah. Here's some uh uh kind of reviewers uh when you mishmash a bunch of reviewers together. Commando delivers quintessential 1980s action entertainment with relentless explosive sequences and Schwarzenegger's charismatic commanding presence. The film's deliberately over-the-top violence, iconic one-liners, and self-aware charm make it hugely entertaining, mindless fun. Which it is. While the complete lack of realism and cartoonish implausibility are acknowledged, most embrace these as international features mixed with opinions emerging regarding the writing's quality and some supporting performances. Though the nostalgic appeal and quotable dialogue remain widely celebrated. Yeah, I don't care what critics or reviewers say, I only really care what I think for the most part, and you to some degree.
SPEAKER_29Remember Sully when I told you I'd kill your last?
SPEAKER_31Yeah, Matrix did say that. I lied. You know, you know why this is so popular, I think, with with not only Schwarzenegger fans, but fans of action films. This is the w this is one of the first action pictures that would play on pay TV channels, HBO Showtime, Movie Channel Cinemax, on a loop. I saw this constantly on cable.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I I agree. I don't know how many times I've seen this, but it it was always on. But there there is some really silly stuff in it. But this is the this is the kind of movie that you just you just let that stuff go. You don't care. Yeah, absolutely. Like at the very beginning. Don't you think there's a better way to set up an assassination than just getting a garbage truck and just hoping the guy comes out and say, hey, you're early today, or whatever the hell it is. You know? That's a that's a weird thing.
SPEAKER_31I thought I missed you. By the way, that's Cook, man. That's Bill Duke.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, Bill Duke's awesome in this. Yeah, yeah, he's great.
SPEAKER_31Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, hold on. I remember the line. He goes, Oh!
SPEAKER_21Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Hey, hold it up, you guys!
SPEAKER_00Don't worry.
SPEAKER_29It takes off the US game. That doesn't make any sense.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, that stuff's gotta be D Susa. It's gotta be.
SPEAKER_31What a fun cast. Like what a fun. By the way, remember we were just talking about the pissed-off boss in the 1980s buddy action cop film? The master of that is Dan Hedea, who's in there's his general uh area. So he's the best.
SPEAKER_32He's good. Yeah, he's really cool. And um, I think this is my second favorite Vernon Wells role, bes you know, besides Road Warrior, which is you know, what about incomparable? Yeah, I mean Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. But he's so goofy in this. You know? He is so goofy. But let's talk about when we first meet Arnold. All right. That great beefcake shot of Arnold carrying that log.
SPEAKER_29With the giant log, yeah.
SPEAKER_32And they shoot it like they they have like half a dozen shots of nothing but his muscles, like super extreme close-ups of his biceps.
SPEAKER_29That's what people are paying for to look at biceps.
SPEAKER_32Dude. He and he looks great in this. He slimmed down a little bit. I think this is like cinematically, he may have the perfect on-screen body here. I mean, he really looks good in this film. He's big, but he's a little more slender than uh something like Conan, you know, or something like that. Or the first terminator.
SPEAKER_31He looks somewhere between a Mr. Olympia and an actual special. Well, I I'm gonna be honest. I'm not buying that he was special forces. He still looks like a bodybuilder, but you're right, it's a little bit more realistic. But he does look dude, especially at the end, when he takes everything off and disrobes into his his one piece to go save his daughter.
SPEAKER_10I mean good lord. Yeah. See at the party richster.
SPEAKER_32He must have known he was gonna take all that off because he used the camouflage stripes on his body, too. Um so he must have he must have known that.
SPEAKER_31He got everything tan evenly. So yeah, he knew that's good.
SPEAKER_32He's a he's a good looking dude in this one. I don't know.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, he he worked out.
SPEAKER_32There's some there's there are some there are some cool lines in this. We we say cool, but they're goofy. Like um, if you want your daughter back, then you better cooperate, right? Wrong. Wrong. It blows that guy away. But it's full of that stuff. It is full of these goofy one-liners.
SPEAKER_31Man, it's once again, it's a it's a B movie. Um it's a it's basically a canon film, but and see that's why it works. You've got some of the masters of 80s action fair. We just talked about D'Souza, who wrote everything from 48 hours to Die Hard 1 and 2 to Running Man, and I think he actually wrote Hudson Hawk. And then you've got Joel, then you got Joel Silver, who never spotted a parenting that he didn't like, and of course he hasn't done everything from Warriors, Roosters Millions, Lead the Weapon franchise, Predator, Matrix. Uh and you know what else is interesting? One of the editors on this, Mark Goldblot, is also one of the is one of the kings of 80s action films. Okay. I know the name, yep. Rambo 2, Robocop, yeah, Predator 2, T2, yeah. That's where this movie works. A bunch of pros.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, and it is it is just as self-aware as it knows what it's doing. It knows what it's doing.
SPEAKER_29Oh yeah, it's not trying to reinvent the wheel. Yeah. No.
SPEAKER_32I like when he he's trying to be escorted. I like that ticking clock too. He's got 11 hours to, you know, to find his daughter. But uh, you know, that guy in the airplane takes him in there and uh Schwarzenegger, you know, just kills him, breaks his neck, and he says.
SPEAKER_12Your five attendants are Susan and Lance, and I'm Fitz. We're here to make your trip as comfortable as possible. Thank you and have a safe and enjoyable flight.
SPEAKER_16Excuse me. How long is the flight?
SPEAKER_12We land in Valverde in exactly 11 hours.
SPEAKER_16Thank you. And do me a favor. Don't disturb my friend. He's dead tired.
SPEAKER_12He's dead tired.
SPEAKER_31I love that guy's hat to.
SPEAKER_21It's so silly.
SPEAKER_31It knows it's being silly. Like it's very silly.
SPEAKER_32It does. It does. And I think if you can get behind that, then you'll you'll understand this a lot more. I bet some people would watch this and not be kind of in on the jokes, you know, and they'd be like, this is stupid, you know? But I like when um the Ray Don Chong character just, I don't know, she just she's just there. But that's part of it. I mean, that is part of the you know, that's part of the template. But I love when he uh tries to take her, he takes her to the mall, and uh he says, Go in there and you know, and and uh seduce this guy there after. And then she goes in and just tells the cop, and the cop comes out and checks it out, and he's like, you know, he goes in and says, Hey, you know, we got a we got a guy over here, maybe trouble. And you cut to that other cop just goofing with the ladies, and he says, Hey ladies, you want to see me kick some ass? And then a split second later, after he looks at Arl, he's like, Emergency, emergency! We need everybody here. This is one big motherfucker.
SPEAKER_31Like he he whispered into Susa's ear and said, I need you to write in how huge I am. Which is funny because obviously the movie starts with him carrying a fucking tree. Like we've got you're huge.
SPEAKER_32You know, and and there are um uh remember the Bill Duke fight, you know, when he's in the hotel room and Bill Duke says, This green bay, this green beret is gonna kick your ass. And he says, I eat green berets for and then Ray Dong Chong says, I can't believe this macho bullshit.
SPEAKER_31And that's what it is. It's like every 15 minutes, Schwarzenegger and D'Souza had to remind us how huge Schwarzenegger was. It's awesome.
SPEAKER_29It's awesome. Does it make any sense? That doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_32No, it doesn't matter. Did you see uh Bill Paxton as that small cameo as the air flight controller?
SPEAKER_29Yeah, it's blink, it's blink if you and you'll miss it. But yeah, he's in there. He's in there.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. It's like, whoa, Bill Paxton.
SPEAKER_29It's fun, right? When you see those and you don't remember them.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I do like that stuff. Yeah, I mean, there's uh there is a lot of goofy stuff in this, but I I dig it. I dig this one hard.
SPEAKER_31It's almost it's almost a perfect, it's almost a perfect B-grade action film. Yeah, yeah. It takes all the boxes. Yeah, you can't criticize it because it's it knows it's ridiculous. Right. I did I did learn something uh recently. I was listening to a podcast from one of my old film school professors, a guy named Gary Sherman, who directed famously. Yeah, you know who this is. Yeah. So in 1987, he directed an action film that I really like. I'm assuming you've seen called Wanted, Dead or Alive. Oh, remember that?
SPEAKER_32I freaking love that movie.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, we should talk about that one day. All right, so anyway, if you guys have never seen that, it's fantastic. All right, so Rutger Hauer and Gene Simmons. Anyway, the point is he was talking about Gene Simmons, and this is what Sherman said. I haven't been able to confirm this, but originally, writer uh Jeff Loeb said that the original commando script was written for Gene Simmons. Let me tell you my story.
SPEAKER_11I've got a man's dying's predicament. And it's a big one.
SPEAKER_31Goes like this. Yeah. About an Israeli soldier who had renounced violence. Simmons turns it down, I think, to work on Gary Sherman's movie, which is really ironic when you see that movie. Right. And then De Souza rewrites it and obviously tailors it to Arnold because that's where we get lines about how huge he is every 15 minutes.
SPEAKER_32Right. There's very little to criticize here. The body count is high. He's got to kill at least a hundred dudes on that island, at least. I mean, it's the last 20 minutes of this is nothing but but shooting people. There's nothing but shooting.
SPEAKER_31Shooting people, and I'm I as you know, I'm a huge fan of explosions, especially when they happen for no apparent reason, and this movie's got plenty of them.
SPEAKER_32Everything blows up in this. And then at the end, of course, the big fight. You close the show with some, you know, uh one of the cornier one-liners.
SPEAKER_16Let off some steam venue.
SPEAKER_32You know, we look we love that stuff. We eat that stuff up. One stroke against it for me is again cue the bad song at the end of the movie. You know how I feel about this, man. That's a terrible song. You don't like Fight For Both by Power Smith? No, dude.
SPEAKER_25No.
SPEAKER_32No. It just feels they feel so out of place sometimes, you know?
SPEAKER_31Um You know what though? Here's why I like that song. It's perfectly fitting this movie for the reasons I think we just described, because this is a preposterous action film. Yeah. But I can see why you'd think it's out uh out of place. Because it is an 80s like power ballad that could belong in any number of genres, honestly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32It's not my thing, man. It's not my thing. Uh tagline. If there's a mission that no man could survive, then he's the man for the job. And there's a couple more. Somewhere, somehow, someone's going to pay.
SPEAKER_31Someone's going to pay. I love that one. Yeah. Dude, look at look at the look at the look on his face in that poster. Why would you fuck with a guy that looked like that? I'm running away.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, they do uh they do turn him into a low-level superhero in this. But he is. Oh yeah. Yeah, it's just you know, through the whole thing, just like like ripping the seat out of the girl's car and all that jazz, you know, just it like every five minutes he does something like that.
SPEAKER_31Or the scene in the mall when he picks up the uh the phone booth. It's just yeah.
SPEAKER_33The mall, the phone booth thing is That's nonsense.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, that's nonsense. You you you can't be surprised by that because the movie the movie sets the tone right away when he's literally lifting a fucking tree. So check out this tree I got for you. I hope you're hungry.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, the the people who don't like this, I just don't think they understand it. That's all. No. That's all.
SPEAKER_31Well, how could you not like this if you're an action film fan?
SPEAKER_32Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so anyone who's out there wants to be a budding screenwriter for this kind of thing, here is the way to do it. You just map out 15 action scenes and then you place them, you place six pages between each one, and you're done.
SPEAKER_31That's it. And within those six pages, you have to say how awesome and huge the main character is. And then you're good.
SPEAKER_32Yes.
SPEAKER_31And then you'll get $10 million, and hopefully you can uh turn that over into a hit. But John just cracked the code, so it should be good.
SPEAKER_32There it is. That's it, man. That's it. Anyway, this is a big thumbs up for me. I dig it.
SPEAKER_31Thumbs up and then it explodes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, absolutely. All right, dude, number seven. Uh, what's your seventh favorite? Hope it's not weird. Seventh favorite. Your your number sevens tend to be weird. All right, uh, this is uh number seven. What do you think?
SPEAKER_31We just talked about it. Commando.
SPEAKER_33What?
SPEAKER_32Nice!
SPEAKER_29Nice. All right, so here, so there's one thing I want to ask about about this.
SPEAKER_31Alright, ready? We're gonna do a versus real quick, since we we've already talked about this. Alright, so the year is 1985. Right. Commando is released in, if I'm not mistaken, October. Okay. But in the same year, around Memorial Day, May 22nd, 1985, TriStar and director George P. Cosmatos release one of the best action films ever. And that is Rambo First Blood, part two.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I knew you were going there. Um, this is my question.
SPEAKER_31So the Battle of 1985. What's better? Commando or Rambo 2? By the way, I've had this argument about 3,000 times.
SPEAKER_32Okay. Well, I think we both know what's which is better. All right. Uh we both know Rambo 2 is better.
SPEAKER_29Uh there's you always felt have you always felt that way? Okay.
SPEAKER_32I because I love that movie. It is actually one of my favorite action movies. Um, First Blood Part 2. Um, it is beautiful, it is violent, Stallone is excellent in it. Uh, there's a lot of great stuff in that. Not that we're getting into that right now, but when he grabs that microphone, you know, and he says, I'm coming for you. I mean, that's a great close up.
SPEAKER_31They put a close-up on his hand, and he's just sick of the shit out of that microphone and exhaust. Speaking of speaking of sweaty close-ups of biceps, that opening when he's tr when he's getting all his outfit out. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, dude. Yeah. I mean, I I I I mean, this is great. Commando is a great movie. It's not very deep. You know, it's just not very deep. It's very surface level. Yeah.
SPEAKER_31Rambo 2 has actually got uh it debates, you know, some important themes about other role in Vietnam. If I was to put together a list of the ten greatest action pictures of the 1980s, um Rambo II is 100% on this. I don't think Commando is. Yeah. Uh agreed. Anyway, I was just I was just curious. I've actually had this debate with some action film super fans that have disagreed with this assessment.
SPEAKER_32And yeah, um, Commando is a very meat and potatoes.
SPEAKER_31Pay it by the numbers, yeah.
SPEAKER_32There's just there's more there's more seasoning, I think, in first blood part two.
SPEAKER_31It's also better directed. I mean, Mark Lester, if I'm not mistaken, was not an action film. Um he was a German director. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, he had no action pictures, with the exception of a movie that John Carpenter got fired from. And I don't even know if Firestarter is an action movie. It has set pieces, but he doesn't go on to do another action film until I think Showdown in Little Tokyo, like six years later, and that's he wasn't really an action film director, and you can kind of tell.
SPEAKER_32You can tell. It is what it is, and we like it. Okay, so my number seven. Um all right. You know what this is, directed by Paul Michael Glazer, written by who? Stephen E. DeSosa? 1987. We are talking about the running man.
SPEAKER_11In the year 2017, an innocent man accused of a crime has a choice. Hard time or prime time. Sensational. Perfect contestant. He must pay or play the running man. I have to wait to be joking. Arnold Schwarzenegger is the running man.
SPEAKER_32Okay. In a future dystopian America, a wrongfully accused and convicted policeman gets his shot at freedom when he is forced to participate in a TV game show where convicts called runners must battle killers for their freedom. Um, it is based on the Stephen King novel, but it's got about 1% in line with that novel. That's about it.
SPEAKER_31It deviates, yeah, it deviates uh it deviates significantly from the actually technically, I think that's Richard Bachman, which, as everyone knows, is Stephen King.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it was. It was. I've read that book probably three times. I do like the book a lot. And I know that you and I have talked about the remake, and I gotta be honest, I think I liked it a lot more than you did.
SPEAKER_31But you didn't like it as much as the original.
SPEAKER_32Uh they're so different. I mean, they're they're completely different films. The at least the new one is an actual adaptation of the novel. This just borrows names from it. But I do like this movie. This one is something, boy. This is the cheesiest one on the list.
SPEAKER_29Cheesier than commando?
SPEAKER_32Oh, dude. Yeah, this one is this one's something, man. This one is something. But he he does, Arnold does carry that I-beam just like he carries that log in commando, so I don't know. I think that might be a callback to it, you know.
SPEAKER_29He looks badass with a beard, too. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't real, but he still looks great.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. It's got all the one-liners, you know, but it's got this really goofy scenario. The goofiest part of it are the stalkers and these goofy caricatures that they have. It starts out pretty much like a uh, you know, a typical action movie of this kind with him trying to save the you know the civilians and and all that, and he's in the helicopter, and you know, they I said the crowd is unarmed. You know, the a lot of women, children down there. They just want some oh, they wanted some food for God's sake, and then back on a thing. Kill him.
SPEAKER_29It has just some awful rear projection during that sequence, but it does set up the movie fairly efficiently.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, no, it's cool. And it doesn't really start cooking until until they start prepping him for the show. You know, um, then it really starts cooking. And uh from then on out, man, it's just goofy fun all the way through. It's a great cast, so I I dig this one a lot.
SPEAKER_08But I hope you leave enough room for my fist because I'm going to ram it into your stomach and break your goddamn spine!
SPEAKER_31It does have a really odd cast between Yafitoto, Richard Dawson, who was one of the best parts of this. And then you got Jim Brown, Jesse. You got Jim Brown. And you've got Mick Fleetwood.
SPEAKER_33What is Mick, what is Mick Fleetwood doing in this?
SPEAKER_32You got uh Professor uh Tanaka in there. Uh I mean it's it's it's cool. It's really cool seeing all these all these people. It really is. Oh, uh Savannah Thorson, who was in Conan, uh is back.
SPEAKER_31He's terrific. It's also got Eddie Bunker, uh George P. Wilbur, who played Michael Myers in Halloween 4. Oh, right. It's got Kurt Kurt Fuller, too. I love Kurt Fuller. He was great as the villain in the god-awful Hulk Hogan movie, No Holds Barred from 89, but he's in this too.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, Eddie Edward Bunker, uh Dweezel Zappa is in this. Um, I don't know, dude. It's but it's Schwarzenegger's movie. I mean, that's for sure. Oh, 100%. One thing I don't like about this, and I hate to say it, man, Maria Kachita Alonzo. I just don't think she can act.
SPEAKER_33I've never really liked her in almost anything I've seen.
SPEAKER_31She's not, I'm not gonna lie to you, she's not great in this, but here's the thing, you barely notice because she's not given a lot to do, but at least she impacts the plot. Sure. Which I can't say for a lot of leading ladies in 80s films, especially 80s action films. Yeah, yeah, it's forced.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, and I'm not putting her down, maybe because it might be script, it might be direction, but even stuff like Predator 2, she stood out like that to me, you know. So I don't know. I don't know. But uh anyway, I want to keep this positive. Um, she looks good.
SPEAKER_31She's fantastic. I always had a huge crush on her.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, she looks good. But uh set pieces are pretty cool, and you are right about Richard Dawson. Richard Dawson is one of the best things in the 80s, as far as I'm concerned, dude.
SPEAKER_31He he kills it in this. What a what a great villain.
SPEAKER_21Three hours, they're gonna go through all four games. Three hours and lots of meet every second because you know the numbers and I'll be back. Only in a rerun.
SPEAKER_32I don't know, dude. I I don't know, this is so goofy. What's that?
SPEAKER_31He he's one of the best human villains. He's the perfect foil to Schwarzenegger.
SPEAKER_32Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_31Yeah. They don't share a lot of Screen time. Uh, but it doesn't matter. He's I I love Richard Dawson in this. Uh, interestingly enough, Richard Dawson was not the best guy, kind of an asshole, but you know what? That's why they cast him in this.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I've heard that too, that this character is more like how he really is to his uh you know, the people who worked for him.
SPEAKER_33100%.
SPEAKER_32So 100%.
SPEAKER_33Oh, oh well.
SPEAKER_32I guess Rob Cohen purchased the rights to that novel, but and he didn't understand why the novel was so expensive to option, because he did not know that Richard Bachman was Stephen King. So I guess that's I guess that's why.
SPEAKER_31That is fucking hilarious.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. Why is it so expensive? Who's this Richard Bachman guy?
SPEAKER_31I do remember that when this were was released, I believe in uh I I believe around my birthday, '87, it got uh mixed reviews.
SPEAKER_32Um how could it not though? Yeah, how could it not?
SPEAKER_31You know what? Movies that here's the thing, people sometimes struggle with um satirical content. This is very much a satire. Yeah. Um it not only is a satire of American media, but American culture. Um and here's the here's the thing that's fascinating. Since '87, it's been reassessed critically. Oh, right. Surprisingly prescient, especially when it comes to reality TV, uh economic inequality, political weaponization of social media, that kind of stuff. And you would suspect that all of those elements were gonna be in the 2025 Edgar Wright film, and some of them are, some of them aren't.
SPEAKER_32Yeah.
SPEAKER_31This is a smart movie when you think about it.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. The script's goofy, but the ideas there are real, and you're right, it's ahead of its time. There's an actor in this uh bit part, and what is that dude's name? I think his name's Tom Rosales Jr. And he plays Chico in this. And uh this guy gets he is in so many of these movies. I bet he gets killed in every movie we're talking about tonight.
SPEAKER_29I know who you're talking about.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, that guy. He got killed in Universal Soldier, too, man. He everybody has killed this guy. Pretty awesome when you think about it. He's just one of those faces. He's like that. Um what's that other guy?
SPEAKER_31You're you're thinking of um Al from Al Leon. Al Young from from Die Hard, yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yep, absolutely.
SPEAKER_31That's one of those guys.
SPEAKER_32He probably gets killed in some of these too.
SPEAKER_31He's fantastic in big trouble in little China.
SPEAKER_32Anyway, we're talking about Sub Zero. Sub-Zero, man. Here is Sub Zero!
SPEAKER_05Now, Plane Zero!
SPEAKER_32Plane Zero. Yeah, I know, dude.
SPEAKER_29The one-liners in this are nonsense.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, they are.
SPEAKER_29But we remember all of them. Remember all of them.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I know. You got uh Buzzsaw, um, and then of course you got Jesse Ventura playing Captain Freedom, who is he's really funny in this. You know, I'm retired.
SPEAKER_31When Captain Freedom is doing his commercial, no penny, no game, there's a shot of him literally upside down, and that shot in that little clip is everything you need to know about this movie. This movie is turning things upside down.
SPEAKER_14Are you ready for pain? Are you ready for suffering? If the answer is yes, then you're ready for Captain Freedom's workout. Yes, it's America's own Captain Freedom. That's the ticket. No pain, no gain.
SPEAKER_12When you hit a tone, you can control your agility and leave you.
SPEAKER_31It's preposterous. I do wish there's an alternate universe where this movie was taken seriously. Don't get me wrong, you can still have political satire, but it was played a lot straighter. I think that's a result of when Paul Michael Glazer came in to replace one of our favorite directors, uh, Andrew Davis.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know why Andrew Davis comes up so much in this podcast. Um, probably because he's fucking awesome. But I I remember reading something about that because that dude, that dude has been attached to a lot of stuff. You know, he was like a go-to guy. He was a go-to guy back then. I I mean Paul Michael Glacier does fine. He does fine. I don't I don't think he's an action director either, but uh it's a I mean it's okay. It's okay. You know, Schwarzenegger is charming in this. The characters are really, really over the top, and I I don't know, I dig it. Here, let's see what critics say. The Running Man delivers an entertaining 80s action experience with Schwarzenegger's charismatic performance and memorable one-liners. The dystopian setting and prescient social commentary about reality TV, surveillance, and misinformation feel eerily relevant today. However, fans of Stephen King's novel found the adaptation disappointing, sharing only names with the source material. The writing divided audiences between those enjoying the fun action and others finding it shallow. Despite inconsistent acting and mixed storytelling, its nostalgic 80s charm and prophetic satire make it worthwhile viewing. So, a lot of critics find the same thing that we just said, which is this thing now feels like it's it happens like they could make this now, the exact same film, and we would be like, Yeah, I get this. Yeah. I do agree that because I because I had read the novel before I saw the movie, and uh I was like, this is not the book. So that's what Edgar Wright's movie is. Edgar Wright's movie is the book.
SPEAKER_31It's a it's a it's a prophetic movie, and Tom, you know, when it this i especially when you look at some of the the imagery, the the the the gap, the economic gap between rich and poor. Sure. Uh I love this. I love the even some of them are done in map paintings, the uh the homeless shanty towns. And then if you pay attention, you got the skyscrapers in the back for the wealthy, uh, and their ivory literally ivory towers.
SPEAKER_25Right.
SPEAKER_31This societal fascination and obsession with reality TV. I mean, it's a it's a like I said, it's a prophetic movie.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it really is. The ICS building looks like it's straight out of Blade Runner. It's got that shape, you know.
SPEAKER_31It's got yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_32I love the fact that the the Justice Department has an entertainment division. That's what this is.
SPEAKER_31Once again, this is there's some really sharp satire in here. It just doesn't get enough credit. My biggest problem with this movie, fundamentally, despite a $27 million budget, it does look cheap in some spots. It really does. I wish this would have been a bigger movie. I wish the TriStar would have put more resources behind here. I have no idea why this cost $30 million because it is not on screen. Well, honestly, I think Short Singer got like $50,000. It's salaries, yeah.
SPEAKER_32It's salaries, yeah. Yeah. I will say that Maria Alonso looks good in that jumpsuit.
SPEAKER_31She does.
SPEAKER_32We'll say that.
SPEAKER_29She does. Now, here's a question for you. N titles. Oh boy. John Parr's Restless Heart Running Away with You. Do you like that, Tribe? No. For N titles? No. Yeah, I like that one too.
SPEAKER_32No, no, I don't like that stuff at all. But you know, I just I've learned that uh in that era, I just don't watch the credits because I can't stand once that song Q starts, I'm like, nah, that's part of the charm of the era. Yeah. Oh, dude, I can't handle it. Um, but you know, this is cool. It it definitely has more to say than commando. You know.
SPEAKER_29There's no doubt about that. Yeah, there's no doubt about that.
SPEAKER_32But no, I I dig this. Uh tagline. The year is 2019. See, I say this is the danger of setting this movies in our lifetimes, you know. The year is 2019. The finest men in America don't run for president, they run for their lives. I don't know, dude. Uh I'm a fan. I'm a fan of this. Uh I I I think I could probably watch this more often than I could watch a commando.
SPEAKER_31This is uh eminently uh uh rewatchable. This is a fun movie. Um both both this and commando are a lot of fun. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, no, they are. Cool. All right, dude. So that takes us to number six. All right, man. What is your sixth favorite Schwarzenegger film?
SPEAKER_31I think this is the last time we're gonna be doing this, but my number six is actually Running Man.
SPEAKER_19Hello, cutie pie. One of us is in deep trouble.
SPEAKER_32Cool. Cool, cool. I kind of figured a lot of our stuff would mimic each other.
SPEAKER_31They'll change a little bit when we get to five through one. Sure, but I did read something interesting that I had not known previously. Um originally this movie was slated to be directed by the previously mentioned George P. Cosmatos, director of Rambo First Blood Part II, and Cobra, with Christopher Reeve in the lead role. Really interesting. The project would go undergo significant changes in script and tone, and then both were replaced during pre-production. Uh, principal photography would begin in early September '86, with Code of Silence director Andrew Davis briefly directing the early weeks of filming. In case you're interested, I I haven't been able to nail this down completely, but the opening jailbreak and the airport uh chase, most of those elements were shot by Andrew Davis.
SPEAKER_33Oh, no kidding. Okay.
SPEAKER_31He went he went way over budget, spending like eight million dollars, and then he got fired. And then that's when he got in Paul Michael Glazer, who could shoot a movie. Paul Michael Glazer, if I'm not mistaken, only had one feature before this. And if I I think that was 1986's Band of the Hand, which is kind of like an action like noir thriller. It's actually it's actually kind of neat. It's got James Remar in it. Uh and it was made very quickly and very cheaply, and that's why they brought him in.
SPEAKER_32But well, there you go. There you go.
SPEAKER_31Because the um is no Andrew Davis, I can tell you.
SPEAKER_32No, because that it kind of makes sense. The the prison stuff is pretty gritty, you know? Yes. Um the airport thing is kind of by the numbers, but the you know, the stuff they were doing there. Really, that's no kidding. He was going over budget, huh? Well, the budget was 27 million, which I mean, that's that should be enough.
SPEAKER_31That should be enough. So, right? For I mean, for Justin for inflation, that is almost 80 million. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. So it uh it made 38 um against 27, so you know, just kind of barely got over the finish line. You know, one thing that we gotta we just gotta acknowledge that none of these movies, the reason they work is because it's Schwarzenegger. We don't go to see whatever character he's playing, we're going to see Schwarzenegger.
SPEAKER_29You're going to see Schwarzenegger. The character is largely irrelevant.
SPEAKER_31Yeah. I just want him to say some quippy one-liners, yeah. Shoot a bunch of stuff. I want stuff to explode, and I want the set pieces to be incredible.
SPEAKER_14Yeah.
SPEAKER_31Yeah. Uh something else I learned in doing a little research on this movie's very interesting production history. Producers originally wanted Chuck Woolery to play Damon Killian. Well, okay. Okay, I can see that. Uh he couldn't get out of his Scrabble contract, so Schwarzenegger's like, hey, let's get Dickie Dawson because he's fucking awesome. And uh the rest is history.
SPEAKER_32Do you think that's what he said?
SPEAKER_31You know what? He might have.
SPEAKER_32Let's get Dickie Dawson. He's fucking awesome.
SPEAKER_31Dickey Dawson. And if you don't do it, I'm going to burn your fingers with my cigar. Also, we should talk about the score. The Harold Fultemeyer score to this is really, really good.
SPEAKER_29Um this is the guy that did Fletch Top Gun and Beverly Hills Cup.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, this is a really fun score. Um initially, this was supposed to be released in summer 87, but it got moved to Thanksgiving. Um, some people think it hurt it, some people think it was a positive. I think producers did this because they only wanted one action film to be released in the Thanksgiving movie season. Right. Unfortunately, this hit a roadblock, and that roadblock was called Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, which just decimated the competition. But it still did okay. Um, it was fine. It generated about 40 million and a $27 million price tag. So it did okay. Uh, but I think it cleaned up on home video.
SPEAKER_32Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, no doubt. Cool, man. Yeah, big fan. Big fan of this movie. Okay, I'm switching gears. I'm switching gears here for my number six. Oh, where are you going? Where are you going? A little movie that probably very few people have seen, and it is called Maggie. Uh 2015. So relatively recently, yeah.
SPEAKER_31Dad, you've protected me all my life.
SPEAKER_12Now it's my turn to protect you. There is life with you, not with me. Don't come looking for me. I'm safe. I'm fine.
SPEAKER_23Mr. Bobby. I need you to follow the rules here. Quarantine is eight weeks in. She's probably gonna show more signs of aggression and hunger. When that happens, say your goodbyes and get her straight through quarantine.
SPEAKER_03Quarantine rules apply everybody, way.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, a teenage girl in the Midwest becomes infected by an outbreak of a disease that slowly turns the infected into cannibalistic zombies. During her transformation, her loving father stays by her side. This is by far, I think, um, it may be my absolute favorite Schwarzenegger performance on screen. He is dynamite in this thing. And when I say hardly anybody saw this thing, let me tell you, um, the uh the budget was about uh 1.4 million, its gross was about 1.6. So this was this was not a uh it did not set anything on fire. Okay.
SPEAKER_31Well, if I'm not mistaken, they probably put zero marketing budget on.
SPEAKER_32Zero.
SPEAKER_31Yeah.
SPEAKER_32Sub zero.
SPEAKER_05Now plain zero!
SPEAKER_32I freaking love this movie. I wish more people would watch this. This what this really is, is a it's an allegory for terminal illness and how it affects a family. And Schwarzenegger's performance in this is absolutely just freaking heartbreaking. He is so good in this. All of the classic Schwarzenegger isms are gone, and he is just a uh a man who is going through the unimaginable, which is watch one of his children slowly be eaten by this uh disease. I guess we should say it's an outbreak movie uh in a zombie movie. Um, but that's that stuff is really kept in the background. You know, there's a little bit of classic zombie stuff, but just enough to give you the idea. But basically, it is Schwarzenegger trying to stay strong for his family. What do you think about this?
SPEAKER_31I saw this basically back to back with another dramatic film he did, I think the uh a year later, called Aftermath. Yeah, Aftermath's good. Yeah. I like this. I I agree with you. It's very metaphorical, it's very theme-heavy. It's not really a zombie film, it's not really a pandemic film. It's a it's a it's a family drama. Yeah. And it works. It works.
SPEAKER_32It's a shift, right? It is so it certainly is. And this director, I don't know, he hasn't done a lot. He does a lot of music video stuff, but this guy, or actually commercial work, I think this guy does for the most part. But I'm telling you, the talk about indie. I mean, this feel has a very indie independent film feel. It's super grounded, very realistic, and I don't know, man. It's it's it's and it's quiet. It's a very quiet movie. It is, it's very deliberately paced. Yeah, yeah, very it's an internalized performance by Schwarzenegger, and it's a very very emotionally vulnerable role. And I am so happy that he did this. I gotta tell you.
SPEAKER_31Um, and here's what's interesting. You can tell he really wanted to do this because how how else do you think they kept that budget so low?
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, he got paid nothing.
SPEAKER_31He may have gotten paid scale.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, you probably.
SPEAKER_31Probably. Actually, he's a producer on this. He may have, you know what, he may have just uh refused a salary. Um yeah, I was impressed. I thought initially this was just a gimmick, this was an acting stunt, but I was completely wrong. I was surprised.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, dude, he's uh he's excellent in this. And I I just I just like it, man. It's a it's a big story that plays out in a very small way. And you do get glimpses of the outside world, but it's mostly through like radio broadcasts and third hand accounts and and and the and the police, of course, uh, you know, always checking in to see how Maggie is doing. And Breslin's really good in this, too, I gotta say. Uh playing Maggie.
SPEAKER_30So's the wife, uh Julie Richardson. She's fantastic.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah, the performances are really good in this. And he's stoic, he's strong, he's visibly heartbroken in this.
SPEAKER_29But he's very vulnerable.
SPEAKER_32Very I'm just a big fan of this. I don't understand why more people don't talk about this. I know it's somber, but it's an emotional powerhouse. I'm just so impressed by what Schwarzenegger has has done here because he's not superhuman in this at all. Nope. He's a he's a tough guy, but he's like farmer tough. You know, he's not he's farmer tough. That's what he is.
SPEAKER_31And this is honestly, when you go and look at his filmography, this is realistically. He's done some dramatic turns in action fair. Right. But this is really like the first time outside of I'm sorry, and and and some of the comedy stuff. There's some dramatic moments in the comedies, but this is a this is an outright dramatic role. It's it's sad, it's melancholy, um, I wouldn't say it's depressing, but it's like you said, 100%.
SPEAKER_30It's somber, very somber.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, man, and uh, I just like the fact that it it asks a lot of questions, you know. It asks questions about um, I don't know, is it better to let someone die at home or just put them in a facility? Which is a very strong theme in this. No one wants to go to quarantine because of the way people will die in quarantine. And there are some slightly scary moments in it, but for the most part, it just plays out as a just uh a hardcore emotional um drama. And uh yeah, I don't know. If you if it if you guys haven't seen this, people need to see this. Honestly, John, I don't even consider this a horror movie. I really don't. I think it's got horror, it's just got horror trappings. I mean, it's you know, but there's moments. There's just enough. It's primarily, yeah.
SPEAKER_31It's primarily, and at least in my opinion, it's a primarily a a a dramatic showpiece for the three pri primary actors.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I agree. I agree. Uh, tagline for this, um, not great. One is don't get bitten, which sucks. That's not nonsense. Yeah, that's not good. But the other one, a father's duty is to protect his daughter. Again, fairly generic, but it fits. I mean, it that is what it is. I don't know how many more times I can say it. If you haven't seen this, please, everybody, go see this, man. It's great.
SPEAKER_31I think, I think the distributor really struggled with how to market this. And here's one of the reasons. Yeah. This was sandwiched between two massive tentpole franchises. Uh, the third Expendables film, and then Terminator Genesis. Right. And it just got A, it got buried, B, they didn't have the money to market it, and C, I don't think they had the faintest idea on how to market it. Right. But you're right. You're right. It's a pleasant surprise. I told my dad about this a year or so ago, and he agreed. He's like, Yeah, that was shocking, quite frankly.
SPEAKER_01Wait, wait. Somehow she has to go in.
SPEAKER_28What if it was Molly? Bobby.
SPEAKER_01After everything that we've been through. I still think it's about that. I've loved her a lot. She was my she's not her anymore.
SPEAKER_32Alright, Mr. Lewandowski. The witness is the fifth best Arnold Schwarzenegger, in your opinion.
SPEAKER_31Okay, I'm pretty sure this is on your list somewhere. This is probably on literally every Schwarzenegger's fan list. 1990s total recall.
SPEAKER_21Call recall. The memory of your ideal vacation.
SPEAKER_19You were interested in a memory of uh you're gonna love this, Doug.
SPEAKER_16But how real does it seem?
SPEAKER_14As real as any memory in your head. You are on your most important mission. Do you want to know the future?
SPEAKER_15But the past.
SPEAKER_25You mean erased your identity and implemented a new one.
SPEAKER_15What once wants in Twain's head? Why?
SPEAKER_17I'm not me. Who the hell am I?
SPEAKER_01You didn't hurt me. We're married.
SPEAKER_19Consider that a divorce.
SPEAKER_11Now we could have total replay.
SPEAKER_00I want Twain delivered from the implantation. Get it.
SPEAKER_05Ready for a surprise.
SPEAKER_03We hope you enjoyed the ride.
SPEAKER_32Oh, dude. What a great freaking movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're right. This would be on the short list of damn near anyone who uh even ca casually likes uh Arnold Schwarzenegger. Man, this is the one. I remember when I first saw this thing, I was blown away. Freaking blown away by this movie.
SPEAKER_31I was blown away in the opening titles. I mean. This movie did make an impact.
SPEAKER_32I want to say um it's one of my favorite Verhoven films. I don't know. I think my absolute favorite Verhoeven films, probably Basic Instinct. Really? I did not I did not know that about you, really. Yeah, I think it is. It's such I just watched it maybe last year again, ever uh having not seen it for quite a while. And man, I was like, God dang, this is so well crafted, this freaking movie.
SPEAKER_31It's incredible. It's yeah, it's it's what I like to call a trasher piece. Because it's incredible that it is pulp trash. Yeah, I love that movie. I would I would honestly have to agree with you, and I love fucking Robocop. Yeah, Robocop is fantastic. Absolutely. I also love showgirls, but basic instinct, I'm a I'm a big erotic thriller guy, but sandwich in the middle really good, yeah, yeah. But totally sandwiched in the middle of uh 1987's Robocop and Basic Instinct is this. Um Man. And this is quite something. There are a lot this this movie's history is almost as compelling as the movie itself. This is tell us a little bit about it. Well, here we go. So Total Recall is based on the 1966 Philip K. Dick short story titled We Can Remember It for You Wholesale. Right, right. Total Recall tells the story of Douglas Quaid, played by Arnold Schwarzenegger, a construction worker who receives an implanted memory of a fantastical adventure on the planet Mars. He subsequently finds his adventure occurring in reality as agents of a shadow organization try to prevent him from recovering memories of his past as a Martian secret agent aiming to stop the tyrannical regime of the planet's dictator Kohagan, played by a really devilish Ronnie Cox. Yeah, he's so he's so good in this. Yeah. So this movie screenplay is actually penned by Gary Goldman and the original creators of Alien, Ron Shuset and the great Danel Bannon. Yes, correct. The problem is this movie was deemed too ambitious when they tried to get it developed um in the 1970s. So they moved on to Alien. So you can thank this movie's original failure for the uh Ridley Scott movie.
SPEAKER_32Well, no, that's interesting, and I can totally see why in this trying to pull this off in the 70s, it it would not be the same film. It would be something different, completely different.
SPEAKER_31And you could make the argument that um even in 1990, this was a very, very expensive movie. I wanna say this is one of the first movies that started to teeter on the brink of the hundred million dollar price tag. I believe the first we're gonna be talking about very soon here. Anyway, the yeah, the ambitious scope of this movie kept it in development hell, I think, at six different studios over 16 years. Wow. There was about 44 different script drafts, seven different directors, and multiple actors cast as Quaid. Wow. What I didn't know until very recently is Total Recall had entered the early stages of pre-production and some filming in 1987 with Dino D. Laurentis, but that company uh went into bankruptcy. And of course, interestingly enough, one of the reasons it went into bankruptcy was 1986's maximum overdrive, but that's a discussion for another time.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I'm I'm I I'm really hot and cold on Laurentis. Depends on the movie, man. Depends on the Red Land. Some of that stuff's okay, but man, some of that is trash.
SPEAKER_31You're uh you're uh you're a Conan the destroyer and Red Sonya fan, right?
SPEAKER_32No, not exactly. Uh it's I mean, I uh they're they're okay, but that's what I'm saying. That's the trashy version of Conan the Barbarian. You know what I mean? That's uh and they're fine. I mean, it's interesting seeing uh Wilt Chamberlain on a horse. I mean that I guess that's interesting. And Grace Jones swinging a stick around.
SPEAKER_31Is that uh that's Richard Fleischer, right? Richard Fleischer. I think Fleischer did it. I think Fleischer did it. I think he did both of those. Um a Richard Fleischer movie called uh Che, which Oh, I'm not familiar with that. If I'm not mistaken, and uh we were drinking wine that night. I do believe that don't tell Rob Zombie this, but I do believe that Sid said that was his favorite movie. What that has to do with Total Recall, I have absolutely no idea.
SPEAKER_32All right, let me Well, I tell you, this now that I think about it, this is the film I thought of earlier. This is the Jerry Goldsmith uh score that I really like that I yeah, that I think had similar cues to First Blood. Um it has it just has that intonation to it and that kind of drive First Blood again. It reminds me of that score quite a bit.
SPEAKER_31And this was Rob Bouteen, right? One of the other things I forgot was this movie's actually got um an editor that no one ever talks about, a gay a guy named Frank J. Urasty. Yeah. Now, if you're an action film fan like I am, he was responsible for the following movies. Tell me if any of these sound familiar. Conan the Destroyer, Redsonia the Hitcher, Robocop, Die Hard, Roadhouse, Total Recall, Basic Instinct, Cliffhanger, Tombstone, Cutthroat Island, Executive Decision, Conspiracy Theory, Lethal Weapon 4, Deep Blue Sea, and he finally retired after the 2011 Thing remake. It's quite a uh philanthropy.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, you've heard of a few of those. Not very few of those. Uh I didn't know he was working all the way up until the remake of The Thing. Uh that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_31A long career, right?
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah. And he's good too, because there is some damn good cutting in this film. Yes. Some great action sequences in this.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, the set pieces are fantastic. The practical makeup effects work for the time were fantastic. Um anyway, this movie land ends up at the at Carlico Pictures, or Carico, which uh was responsible for some really great action fair in the late 80s and in the 90s before it also went into bankruptcy, and you can thank Cutthroat Island, but once again, that's a discussion for another time. Um, it's very, very hard because of that bankruptcy to really pin down the actual budget. It's speculated that it's somewhere between 50 and 80 million, like I said, making it one of the most expensive films at the time. Uh the movie was shot in Mexico, it took six months to shoot. On its release, it made about 260 million worldwide, making it the I believe, fifth highest grossing film of the year. Yeah. Interestingly enough, the critical reception was mixed. Um I don't understand that. I don't understand that. You know what? It's it's you know what? Here's here's here's my theory. It is incredibly violent and very vulgar, but so is Robocop.
SPEAKER_32So uh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this is a little bit more this is a little bit more cartoony than RoboCop was. Robocop was pretty grounded uh when it comes to its violence. Um this one I think is a little bit more fun than RoboCop. But uh, you know, a little bit there's a little bit more levity in this than I think there was in RoboCop.
SPEAKER_31There is. It's not as subtext heavy. I mean, I guess you could make the argument that the subtext here is um authoritarian governments and colonialism, but I don't think it's anything like the the the the deep themes in uh in RoboCop. So it's kind of missing. Um but you get a fantastic cast here, which is fantastic. Yeah, sure do. Besides obviously Schwarzenegger, you get uh Sharon Stone, who's terrific, Michael Ironside, who's always terrific. Rachel Takotan is in this, Marshall Bell. There's a there's a there's a really great cast.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, this may be one of my favorite Ironside uh performances. He's really good in this.
SPEAKER_31Oh, he's a menace. Yeah, yeah, he's a menace. Him and Ronnie Cox are just he played he was a good villain, right? I mean Ironside has always basically been a villain, but Ronnie Cox goes, you know.
SPEAKER_32But man, he's intense in this. Yeah. There's a uh there's a few things in this that I really like. I'm just gonna go in. This is my number five as well. Okay. Oh, no kidding. Okay. A long time ago, I saw at the movies with Siskel and Ebert, and they made a point of saying how advanced the special effects have become at this at this time. Because these they said well, Roger Ebert's point was that literally there seems to be an effect shot in every single shot of the film. Something is a visual effect shot within it. And and that could be true because it is everywhere, even to the point where the receptionist is sitting at her desks and she's changing her fingernail colors by just tapping on them. Remember that? Very, very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Really early on, that stuff was hard to do.
SPEAKER_31Like you said, Rob Oteen, who previously had worked with with uh Dutch director Paul Verhoven on Rookop, um did a lot of the character visual effects. I think Ron Cobb and Ron Miller did a lot of designs for the tech vehicles and such uh additional effects were provided by Industrial Light and Magic. So you had some hitty heavy hitters on this. I think I read once that this movie has over 120 visual effects, including miniatures, blue screen, front and rear projection, um practicals. And this was made at basically the onset of uh CGI, generation two CGI. Right, right. Um, which I think is used primarily in the X-ray machine. Um there's a lot of sophisticated prosthetics in this and animatronics, um, namely in the uh automated taxi drivers, but it's it's impressive for 1990. This is incredibly impressive.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I think it's ahead of its time. I'm sitting here trying to think of great little quirky scenes, and one I like when because one of the one of the interesting things is that Sharon Stone is not his wife, right? She's a plant. You know, that's interesting because she's there just to keep an eye on him, make sure his cover doesn't get blown. And then later on, because we then we find out that's Michael Ironside's girlfriend, right? Yeah. And the Michael Ironside has this henchman, and he says, I want that fucker dead.
SPEAKER_27I don't blame you, man. I wouldn't want a guy like Quaid porking my old lady. You saying she likes it? No, I'm sure she hated every minute of it.
SPEAKER_31See, that's what I'm talking about. Kind of juvenile, but you know what? It worked.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it's good. It's there's there's humor in it. There's humor in it, like real humor. You know, it's not as nihilistic as RoboCop, which is very little humor in Robocop. Um, Robocop's just brutal from start to finish.
SPEAKER_31Well, a lot of it is a lot of it's subversive. It's it's yeah.
SPEAKER_32I mean, there are great things in that, like you burn the fucking money.
SPEAKER_21Shit. I don't believe it! You burned the fucking money! I had to blow the door when you want!
SPEAKER_32Uh little little things like that I do appreciate. But as far as this, the uh you mentioned the miniatures. The miniatures are really, really cool in this. There's great miniature work in this.
SPEAKER_31I was gonna say I did not know that Principle for Total Recall, which was done in 89, I think in the spring and in the early summer, uh, was done in sequence. Um interestingly enough. Uh this, like I said, this was shot in Mexico, where there were 500 crew members and 45 sets. And like you said, one of the, or many of those sets are the miniatures. Mainly, I believe, Mars, the uh Mars exteriors.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, that stuff's great. I always, when I was younger, when I watched this the first time, I really, really was impressed by that scene where they had uh Arnold pulling that probe out of his head through his nose. Um, I mean, you could tell it was a prosthetic head, but still, it gives you like vibes, you know.
SPEAKER_31When he goes the the airport scene when he takes off the woman's head, that was fantastic.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, that is really cool. That's really cool. Yeah. No, it's uh I don't know, man. It's just a it's just a really, really solid action movie. You know, and and he is really good in it. Everybody's really good. I think Arnold really can uh step up when he's working against great people. And he had great people to work against here. You got the woman with the three breasts, that's always fun. I think my son Johnny, he always wanted to watch this movie just for that scene when he was real little. You know, three boobies.
SPEAKER_31The boobs, yeah, the three boobies.
SPEAKER_23Yeah, we're all a bunch of perverts.
SPEAKER_31I gotta say, it is one of the most memorable pieces in a movie that has a large number of memorable pieces.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, but the action's solid, you know, the action's solid. And there's great lines in it, you know, when he uses that um projection machine to project himself somewhere else in that uh in especially at the end when he's in that that where the alien artifact is, that big complex, and he steps out and everybody swings their guns toward him and he says, You think this is the real Quaid?
SPEAKER_20It is.
SPEAKER_32It is explosive away. And it's so funny that if you've ever seen an example of how not to set up a uh a gun attack, it would be that because the crossfire, you don't shoot in a circle. You know what I mean? Everybody's in a circle around this guy. That's not the way it goes. No. This is a holdover from the 1980s where everyone shot in a circle. Right. Yeah, that's crazy. Jos Vicano um is the DP, and I think this thing looks great because he works with Verhoven a lot. He did Robocop, Starship Troopers, and he also did one of our favorite films, Das Boot. Um, which I guess after going through Das Boot, everything is probably a piece of cake. You know? He's like telling telling stories on set. You think this is hard. I shot Das Boot. Yeah, dude. I'm I'm just a big fan. I'm I'm really happy. I knew this was gonna be in your list, I just wasn't sure where.
SPEAKER_31I'm a big uh Dan O'Bannon guy. Um and I really, really like Paul Verhoeven, and obviously both of us. Any fan of 1980s action sci-fi cinema is gonna love Jerry Goldsmith. So I mean you put those not to mention, like you said, there's uh there's Rob Bouteen work in this. Um it's really hard not to like this movie. It's somewhat preposterous, it's a little over the top, but my god, is it?
SPEAKER_32Sure. Last thing I'll say about this is this I'll blow this place and be home in time for cornflakes. That's a great line from Ronnie Cox in the film. Now get your ass to Mars. I'll get your Astomas. Get your ass to Mars. I'm glad this is here. This is this is a great movie. Um, here's some taglines. I don't know what you have, but here's some that I have. Uh how would you know if someone stole your mind? Okay, well. Okay, that's I guess that's the one. Um They stole his mind. Now he wants it back. And then the third one I found is what would you do if someone stole your mind? So there you go. Three substandard taglines for a great movie. Very good.
SPEAKER_31I think the um I think the theatrical one sheet has get ready for the right of your life.
SPEAKER_32All right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_31I don't know where that falls in the not very sexy, but that's the poster.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, okay. Let's move on, dude. Um, because now we're down, it's getting down to the nitty-gritty here. Number four, what is the fourth best, uh, fourth best Arnold Schwarzenegger movies? Can I guess? Can I guess what yours is?
SPEAKER_31Yeah, guess.
SPEAKER_32I'm going to guess 1994's True Lies.
SPEAKER_31Yep. You got it.
SPEAKER_11Ah, okay, well, mine too. For 15 years, Harry Tasker's been leading a double life.
SPEAKER_15Mr. President, one of our best men is inside. Transmitting now. Right on time.
SPEAKER_25I don't believe I've met you before.
SPEAKER_19Rehnquist. Harry Rehnquist. Now they're about to collide.
SPEAKER_15What's your next strategy? I'm gonna walk right up to the front gate. Let's give you an invitation, please.
SPEAKER_31Yeah. Okay, so I think I know where we're going now. Okay. Yeah. Okay, good. True lies. I I like this movie. I watch this one about once a year. Um, this movie is fucking ridiculous. And it's a lot of fun. I like this for the same reason I like Total Recall. It's big, it's loud, it's preposterous. Schwarzenegger looks like he's having a lot of fun. Um if if I'm correct about our lists, there's probably gonna be three James Cameron movies, and uh, I believe this is the first of the three. Probably makes you wonder or makes you wish he would have made more with the guy, right?
SPEAKER_32Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I I know he's doing the avatar, he's doing the avatar thing. Um, and that's fine. I totally, I totally dig it. I mean, they're the you know, some of the biggest movies on the planet when they're Released. But I do kind of wish that. I do miss that early era Cameron. I really do kind of miss it.
SPEAKER_31You know? Like this type of action film, you know, spy stuff, set piece stuff like this. Yeah, yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_32Cool. Um, here, I'll tell you a little bit about it. A fearless globe-trotting terrorist battling secret agent has his life turned upside down when he discovers his wife might be having an affair with a used car salesman while terrorists smuggle nuclear warheads into the United States. And that is one thing I really like about this. I really like that little romantic angle with uh with Jamie Lee Curtis. Um I think that I think that pushes this a couple notches higher for me, because uh I really do like Jamie Lee Curtis in this. And I like that relationship, even though it's as weird as it is, the situation, I still kind of dig it.
SPEAKER_31It's not the same movie without her, I can tell you that much. Yeah. Without question. And it's not just the it's not just the female lead, it's more specifically her. This is in a lot of ways her comeback movie. I didn't say she disappeared from Hollywood, but this it had been a while since she was in a high-profile studio movie, and there by the time you get in the 94, there's nothing more high profile than this guy. And interestingly enough, this is also Schwarzenegger's uh comeback movie, a movie that you do not like that he made the summer before, which fucking bombed Last Action Hero. Right. Hurt the guy. He was he was he was hurt by that movie's failure.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. This thing's got a lot of things going for it. Other than the fact that it's got great sequence after great sequence. I mean, just fantastic stuff all the way across the board. It's funny. Yeah, it really is funny. There's a great sense of humor in this. The two words that spring to mind are Bill and Paxton, who is phenomenal in this thing. He always is. He is he is so funny. The cinematography is absolute top-notch on this man. It's super clean, it's super sharp. Um, I just love the look of this film. It just looks expensive. You know? That just looks expensive.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, hundred and hundred and twenty million dollars. Yeah, this is this is the end result of that. I remember I remember when this came out, I was like, oh my you know what? I I wanna say I I could have swore I could have sworn that T2 was actually the first movie to hit the that barrier. I guess.
SPEAKER_32Oh, it was. It was. No, no, no. I'm pretty sure that that was because that was 92, right? And um I'm pretty sure that you're right. It that was a at the time I think it was the most expensive in in the current day dollars. You know, we're not going back to Cleopatra or anything like that, but you know let me double check that.
SPEAKER_31There's no way I I could have swore. Okay, so there's a little bit of controversy here. Some people have it between ninety-four and one hundred and two million. Okay. So, you know what? Let's just put it this way. James Cameron is the first filmmaker to usher in a hundred million dollar movie. How about that?
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, consistently.
SPEAKER_31Yeah.
SPEAKER_32He he he's he likes to spend a lot of money, but it's okay because he makes that money back. This movie actually did really well. Really well. Almost almost 400 million globally. I mean, it's uh yeah, so he's the man, he's one of those few directors who can uh boss the studios around, you know? He's just one of those guys.
SPEAKER_31Dude, summer ninety four, summer ninety four was was big. I don't know, I don't know if you remember this, but the lineup was let's see. I know this much. I'm gonna go to the movies recently released before I wanna say it was Lion King, Speed, um, Maverick, Flintstones.
SPEAKER_32This was Flintstones.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, Flintstones. Um then and then right after was it doesn't really matter what what happened after, but that with all those films and in Oh, you know what else? Wait, no, this is hold on for a minute. I just thought of something. This was released on July 12th. So check this out. Forrest Gump was released a week prior. And it's and True Lies still ended up uh generating a bottom. Wow, okay. So that's 80 million. Yeah, that's saying something.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it really is. That's impressive. That was a loaded impressive now.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, that was a that was a loaded summer. Loaded summer.
SPEAKER_32Uh I tell you this, this has got by far the best Tom Arnold uh uh on-screen performance in it. Oh, he's fantastic. He's hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. Yeah. They give him all kinds of funny lines. I know he's the goofy sidekick, but he feels he feels legit. You know, I don't know if he'd really be on a team like this, but you know, I guess I guess he is. He knows his tech, I guess. And and what else? The oh, the composer, Brad Fidel, is back. Um, which is cool. He leaves all the industrial metallic stuff behind that he did in Terminator. This is a more, you know, kind of a modern um there's more orchestra.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, there's more orchestra, and it's more it's more, it's more classic action adventure music, but it's it works. I love the main theme to this. Love it.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really good. Um But I I like it opens up with that great kind of James Bond-esque scene, uh, which is cool with him infiltrating the party. And I like any action scene that takes place in snow, so that's cool.
SPEAKER_31Uh here's here's my invitation. I love there's a healthy amount of explosions in this film. Always a always a favorite of mine.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah. But I still think at the heart of it, it's really this it's really this relationship between uh Jamie Lee and Arnold, where they they clearly love each other. Clearly. But uh things have just grown a little stale. She wants a little action in her life. Bill Paxton comes along and is a complete moron, but he's got some game, I guess. I guess.
SPEAKER_31Remember, remember his famous line? The vet gets him wet. So stupid.
SPEAKER_33So stupid.
SPEAKER_32Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah. He um he has so many great lines in this.
SPEAKER_04Hey! Hey, you might keep it under 90? I'm still trying to pay for this dental work. So, who are you working on right now? I always got a couple on the hook, you know. There's this one right now. I got her panned like a dog. It's great.
SPEAKER_19What does she do?
SPEAKER_04Some sort of legal secretary or something. You know, a tight and conservative. But she could be so hot as she wanted to be.
SPEAKER_19But you she gets to be real hot, huh? Red hot, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Her thigh steam. Like a diamond plant just needs a little water. Married to some boring jerk.
SPEAKER_19Married just a boring jerk.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know he doesn't appreciate her. She's like all these babes. You get their pilot lit, they can suck start on leaf floor. Oh gosh, she's got the most incredible body, and a pair of titties make you want to stand up and beg for buttermilk. Ass like a 10-year-old boy.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_32Oh, and uh, when he's talking to her and she's like very hesitant to to go on this uh non-existent mission, he goes, if not for me, do it for your country.
SPEAKER_02It's so cheesy.
SPEAKER_32Bill Paston's great. He is, man. And then he's surprised when they actually treat him like a terrorist, and he has no idea. I mean, it's just it's it's complex, and I love it. I love it, you know. And I love when they have him out over that dam, they're dangling him off, and he's like he pisses himself.
SPEAKER_33He's still, hey, you still interested in that vet? And he goes, uh, I got a little dick. It's pathetic.
SPEAKER_32It's this this is a freaking funny movie. It is it's a freaking funny movie, man. And I I don't know. I just I'm just I know that this might not be on the top of a lot of people's uh Schwarzenegger list because I don't think it's as well known or as well remembered as some of the stuff that's become more iconic than this. But this is just as good as anything that Schwarzenegger's done. You know?
SPEAKER_31So I would be surprised. I would I'd be surprised if an action fan uh a real fan of action pictures didn't have this on their list because this has got everything. You know what else in a rewatch? This is the most fun thing, because I'm kind of a pervert. I forgot. Let's be honest, Trading Places was 12 years before this. I forgot how sexy Jamie Lee Curtis was.
SPEAKER_32Man, she's never been sexier than in this. Wow.
SPEAKER_31That dance sequence she does.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. Um yeah, I think everybody that's I think that's stuck in everybody's mind. That's an amazing sequence. Perfect casting, because she's got the she's got the looks, she's got the body, she's got the attitude, but she is not a young woman. You know? She's a slightly middle-aged lady, and she is just tear she tears it up. Tears it up.
SPEAKER_31I do love the horse chase in the hotel. I also lie I also love the fight sequence in the bathroom that when you really think about it was replicated in one of the more recent Mission Impossible films.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I that's what I thought when I saw that Mission Impossible film. You know, exactly.
SPEAKER_31You know what I'm talking about, same thing. I'm like, wait a minute, this is true lies. I mean, right down the set deck. It's and that's fine. That's fine because it's a great sequence.
SPEAKER_32Sure. You know, there's a little piece of um there's a little Easter egg there. One of those the bigger hulking guy that goes in after him, right? I swear he's wearing the same jacket that uh Arnold wore in the first Terminator. I swear that's the exact same jacket.
SPEAKER_31He might be. I mean he might be there that it is. It's a Cameron movie. He might have thrown that in there as a little Easter egg, yeah. Uh I love the miniatures when they blow up the keys. The bridge on the side. Oh man, that is perfect.
SPEAKER_32I don't still to this day, man. I just wish I could have watched the Helly Shot at him.
SPEAKER_31That's that's very cool. And then you go you go from that. My only problem with the actual ending, the actual denounce, is I wish Helen Tasker could have had more agency in the rescue of their daughter, played by a really young Eliza Dishku. Yeah.
SPEAKER_20Yeah.
SPEAKER_31But when you think about it, if she would have been in that that um that Harrier, that would have been that would have been pretty ridiculous, actually.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, that would have been that would have been tough, you know. And and there are some silly things in it. I like when um who is it? Jamie Lee drops that oozy and it starts rolling down the stairs and it starts taking out a bunch of guys. Yeah and that's not the way guns work, but Cameron knows that. He knows that.
SPEAKER_03You know he knows that.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, you just let it go, and man, it's it's just cool. You just have a good time.
SPEAKER_31I will say this. This is based on a, if I'm not mistaken, a French movie called La Totale. Yeah. And Cameron does a pretty decent, a pretty admirable job of towing the line between Romance and action and thrills. Yeah. Without getting tonal whiplash. Because we do go from action adventure orientation, and then we get into like family domestic squabbles, a little bit of drama. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because you're right. The the first act is more spy-oriented, then the second act slows down, then he's caught, and then he got this third act, which is just a roller coaster. But I think that's why it works, at least in my opinion. It is it is a roller coaster.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I noticed that when I was watching the credits, there's like 40 people credited in the sound department alone. Oh, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_31I think I think the movie has three credited editors, which means there's probably 20 people in the editing department at least. Yeah, probably. That's usually not a good sign, but I think that this movie probably suffered with its cut, and then I would guarantee it had radiance issues. And anytime that happens, you're gonna go back and forth and back and forth, and you gotta bring out other editors.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. No, I'm just a big fan. I love the how it ends with the tango scene. You know, it's a really nice sweet send-off. It's perfect. Perfect.
SPEAKER_31Yeah. And I'm glad they didn't do a sequel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But I am I I will I'm glad there's no sequel, but I'm also shocked that by the year I'd say 97, 98, you didn't see one, because this would have been perfect sequel fodder, because you just treat it like a you treat it like a a standard spy franchise. I I think they could have done three of these.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, they could have done three of these, but I'm glad they didn't. The final line of the movie. I'm sick of being in the van. I've been in the van for 15 years, Harry. He just keeps talking.
SPEAKER_33It's alright.
SPEAKER_32Pissed off. No, it's it's cool. It's it's dynamite. Um taglines. When he said I do, he never said what he did. Cool. It's good. It's a good one. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Great big fan of all early Cameron movies. Um, all right. Number three. All right, I'm curious. Now, I am curious. I I'm curious about number three for you. This is where it's gonna get tricky. Okay. This is gonna shock.
SPEAKER_31This is gonna shock a lot of people. Oh, then I know what you're gonna say. Go ahead. A lot of people have this, a lot of people probably have this at number one. I've got it at number three. Okay. 1991's Terminator 2 Judgment Day.
SPEAKER_32Stay make. These were taken at the West Island police station, 1984. You were there. Stay model.
SPEAKER_27These were taken today.
SPEAKER_01You have to let me stay my time. These are great danger.
SPEAKER_06It's like to try to kill one of these things.
SPEAKER_11You do 35 years to be this time. There are two Terminator 2. Schwarzenegger. Terminator 2, judgment day. This time he's back for good. Trust me.
SPEAKER_32Yep, I knew you were going there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, another dynamite flipping movie from James Cameron.
SPEAKER_31So here's so here's really the debate. I mean, everyone, everyone has seen this movie, and every fan has seen it 30 times. I guess the real the real thing we should be talking about is why do I have this at number three? Why is this not number one? And I guess the the the easy answer is there's just two movies that I think are better.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I mean, that that really is. You could shake some of these movies up and pour them out randomly, and you can't argue with the results. Yeah, you know. I mean, really, I mean, I we've had this conversation offline several times. Um T2 is damn near perfect. Damn near perfect. And I think that's why so many people love it. And I do, I do too. I love that flipping movie, man. It's a great movie. It's one of the best action movies ever made.
SPEAKER_31Oh, and it's it's with it's without question, I'd say in the top, it might be number one, it's in the top three of the greatest sequels ever made by sure. For sure.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, so what do you like about it?
SPEAKER_31There's a lot I like about it. Um, I'm not gonna talk about what I don't like, we'll save that for later, but let's just talk about effects.
SPEAKER_25Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_31This movie ushered in and basically solidified the transition from practical effects to a general reliance on CGI. Yep. The first time I saw this, I was blown away. Now remember, this is before Jurassic Park, so it's it's got a very um similar narrative. In fact, you could make the argument near identical to the first picture, which we may be talking about, but there's a lot of upgrades. A lot of upgrades. First off, it has a hundred million dollars in budget upgrade. Yeah, that's a yeah, that's an upgrade, alright. Uh, is Schwarzenegger as menacing as he is in the first film? No. But he's a bona fide movie star now. Now he's just Schwarzenegger, right? You know what I mean? Right. But there's a lot of additions. Um, the most notable being uh Robert Patrick as T1000 is terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. Love him. I love the addition of young John Connor played by a uh pre-rehab Edward Furlong. Linda Hamilton is back in this, and she is just a badass. Yeah. Uh I do like the film that I do like the fact that the film expands on the the Skynet story and the Cyberdyne story, especially when it comes to the primary engineer, a guy named Miles Dyson, played by I think Joe Morton. That's also fascinating to me.
SPEAKER_32He's so good. He's Joe Morton's really, really good in this.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, he's a fantastic actor. Yeah. But generally speaking, the the the trajectory of the movie is generally similar to the first one, but the set pieces are so much bigger, so much louder, so much more intense. Is it better than the Terminator? We're gonna find out, but it's definitely good enough to be number three on this list.
SPEAKER_32Uh yeah, 100%. 100%. You know, um the one thing this is missing that really is missing, sorely missing, is Michael Bean as Reese. Oh, without question. Who is a fucking just monster of a of an actor in the first one? So intense, this dude. So, I mean, I you do miss him. I mean, you do. You do miss him for fans of the Terminator. And Robert Patrick is great. I'm not saying he's not, he's great. The T1000 is awesome, and I think this is where the sequels fail, because the sequels seem to think, past two, that what that what the movies need is an even more badass Terminator. And I just don't agree with that. With them trying to just, well, if we're doing another sequel, if we're doing part three, part four, uh, what's the Terminator gonna be like this time? I just don't I just don't see the need for that.
SPEAKER_31And they just keep trying to upgrade it, and they they they fail to realize that what makes these work are the the human characters. Right, right. And there's also an over-reliance of CGI in the sequels. This movie does blend practicals, um, get a lot of practical work, from the explosions to some of the damage enacted by by the uh by the Terminators, etc. But that's really the key. The key is the human relationships, and as we go on, those just get diminished for spectacle. And that spectacle is dominated by CGI.
SPEAKER_32Absolutely. And as Arnold's character, the Terminator, progresses, it seems like he's there more and more for the to be but the butts of jokes. You know what I mean? They turn him there they push comedy into him a lot, and that's not what the freaking terminator is. The terminator is what we see in one and two, right? So uh, you know what? I I I knew this was gonna be high on your on your list. Um, and it is coming up on my list too. So if you want, we can move on with my number three. Uh, and I don't want to spend a lot of time on it either. Um, because it's uh it's Conan the Barbarian.
SPEAKER_07This is good! What is best in life?
SPEAKER_06The open step. Free thoughts, talking at your wrist, wind in your ear.
SPEAKER_07Conan! What is best in life? Crash your enemies, see them driven before you, and then
SPEAKER_32Oh wow. Yeah, you know, I mentioned this before, how much I love this movie, and I still do. This is definitely one I can watch uh every year. Uh there's an epic quality to it that I just miss in movies. I just miss it. You know, we don't see this kind of thing that often anymore. Like again, I don't have to spend a lot of time on it, but that is my number three. I think he's great in it. Uh that role was just made for him. You know, I don't know of anybody else who could have played it like he did, and uh that is my number three. Conan the Barbarian.
SPEAKER_31Love it. Here's the great thing about the 80s. Think about that for a second. You got a bunch of psychopaths making a movie together. You know, you got you got Schwarzenegger, before he was really Schwarzenegger, you got screenwriter Oliver Stone, and John Millius, who was nuts. Completely nuts. Yeah. Yeah. The fact that this is as good as it is is shocking, honestly.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it's I I think one of the reasons it's good is because it doesn't feel like there's a lot of studio interference in this. And I could be wrong. That's just what it feels like to me in that era, what I know of the era.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, I think Dino let him let him do whatever he wanted to do. As long as he kept the movie under, I think its budget was about 20 million, which is a nice price tag for 1982. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Um tagline for this Thief, Warrior, Gladiator, King. Have you heard rumblings of them still trying to get a another Conan movie off the ground? Remember, this comes around every 10, 15 years.
SPEAKER_31I can tell you right now, after the failure of Masters of the Universe, that's dead. That's too bad. And you know what? Yeah. You know what? Just just let it be. You know what I love about this movie? It's so fucking dirty and dusty and sweaty. It feels real.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, you know, it and you can you can you can certainly tell that. It's like it's like Lu Luca shooting out in the desert for Tatooine, you know, and Tunisia. You know what I mean? He he finds a place that work, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's not it's not just sound stages, and I mean it there's an organic quality about movies like that that you can just feel. You just feel it.
SPEAKER_31Yeah. Every every time we do these new, these new age sword and sorcery movies, first off, they're all on digital. They're way too slick looking. Yeah. You know, this is 35 millimeter, and it's just a filthy looking sepia toned print, because it's supposed to be. Because it's fucking Conan.
SPEAKER_32And it looks like you were actually there. Like this is what it would look like if we were there.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, that's what it feels like.
SPEAKER_32Yeah.
SPEAKER_31It's they don't make them, they literally don't make them like this anymore because they can't. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_32Cool, dude. All right. Well, that's my number three, Conan. Now we're down to the brass tacks. Uh number two. Oh, I want to guess what yours is, but I I really don't know. It could go either way.
SPEAKER_31So once I say number two, you're gonna know number one, but I think we might be in agreement on number one. All right, so my number two, Terminator, 1984.
SPEAKER_09In the 21st century, a weapon will be invented like no other. This weapon will be powerful, versatile, and indestructible. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with, it will feel no pity, no remorse, no pain, no fear. It will have only one purpose to return to the present and prevent the future. This weapon will be called the Terminator.
SPEAKER_25You're dead, honey.
SPEAKER_34What date is it? The date. Twelve first level.
SPEAKER_02I'm here to help you.
SPEAKER_09Arnold Schwarzenegger is the Terminator. Your future is in its hands.
SPEAKER_32Oh yeah, baby. Oh man. This is I don't know how many times we've had this discussion about which is best, Terminator 1 or Terminator 2. I've never had bar fights over this. I've never had a definitive ads answer, and I still don't, by golly, I still don't. The Terminator is so freaking good. And you're right, the tone is slightly different from Terminator 1 and Terminator 2. Terminator 1 feels, god, it just feels so gritty and independent. And it's it's slick, but it's not slick like T2.
SPEAKER_31No, it's all like just the same thing I just said about Conan. Think about this. This is a sweaty, dirty fucking grindhouse movie. And here's the best part this is what a lot of people fail to realize. Yes, this is an action picture. Yes, this is science fiction. But think about this for a second. This is also a slasher movie. It's the ultimate grindhouse B movie of all time, and it only cost six million dollars. I know, dude, that's just crazy crazy. I have no idea. I have zero idea. Zero. And that's why, that's why this is better than T2. You know what? No offense, but when you have a hundred million, it should look like that. But this, this is a different animal.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_31This is a different animal.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, there is uh there's definitely uh a renegade quality about this that just can't be denied.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, this is outlaw cinema.
SPEAKER_32Oh, surely. Surely. And there are some I am impressed by this more than I am uh simply because of the budget. Those those futuristic, those futuristic scenes in T1, I I prefer to the ones in T2 because God man, you can barely see what's going on. It feels like it's about 110 degrees. You gotta just I I I don't know. There's such a I I don't know if it's good.
SPEAKER_31It's a very yeah, it's a very hot movie. There's always things exploding, everyone is sweating. It just looks like an uncomfortable future, right? And that's yeah and once again, like you said, this has Michael Bean. This also has one of the best voices in the history of movies, Paul Winfield. It's got Lance Hammerson, it's terrific. Let's not forget Rek Rossovich, but yeah, seriously though, the other thing that's most impressive is this. Let's be honest, this is ostensibly the directorial debut of James Cameron. Yes, he he was a spot director for Piranha 2, but that doesn't fucking count. That's not his movie. This is his debut, and wow, what a debut.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, you ain't kidding. It's just the pacing of this thing is just unrelenting.
SPEAKER_31It's relentless. Yeah, relentless. And and here's the thing, I think you just mentioned this. This is the thing that Terminator 2 is missing. Schwarzenegger is absolutely terrifying in this movie. Yeah that scene in the disco club, Technor, when he unleashes that weapon and he's staring right at her, I'm like, holy fuck. Even when he rips up the phone book, terrified.
SPEAKER_32When I when I first saw this, I thought it was the best thing I'd ever seen in the theater. Oh, me too.
SPEAKER_31Me too. The greatest movie of all time. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I'm guessing you saw this way too young, right? I think I saw this, I think I saw this in 1985 or 1986, so I would have been uh 10.
SPEAKER_32Um I saw it at the theater. Um I did not. So you're like I might have been eighth grade. I think I was in eighth grade, maybe, seventh or eighth grade when this came out. But everybody was talking about it. Everybody who went and saw it. You know, that's all they could talk about. But let me listen, let's back up for a minute. I I love the way it opens with that little tale that they tell on uh the screen. Um the machines roll through the dashes of the and then at the at the end of it it says that um something like uh the fate of the world will be fought here in our presence tonight. You know what I mean? And I've just never seen anything quite like that. It really sets it up, yeah.
SPEAKER_31It does. I also love the uh the title sequence, the bread. Oh, dude, main that's so awesome.
SPEAKER_32So good.
SPEAKER_31Sets sets the stage, it's it's got a very sci-fi feel, and that's awesome. But like I said, there is a lot of horror in this. A lot.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, it's it's dark, and uh and yeah, I mean, we did when we were doing the horror um shows, someone mentioned, maybe Jonathan, that he is he considered it a slasher because basically it was like a Jason Voorhees, right? You can't stop him, he's not gonna stop coming for you, and all you can do is run. And Michael Bean is so good, you know. She's asking him, can you stop it? And he's like, I don't know. I don't know. With these weapons, I don't know. And that's that's great. He might not be able to stop.
SPEAKER_31And he doesn't she does, though. She does, right?
SPEAKER_32She does. But Michael Bean's one of the reasons this is a standout for me. Um, I have been uh a big fan of his ever since this movie came out, and the energy that he brings with him in this film is just dynamite from from the get-go, you know? And when I love all that exposition that he's giving while they're driving, trying to get away, and he's he's he's laying it out for her, but he's still gonna swerve and lose that and that shows you what a good screenplay this is.
SPEAKER_31It's not it's it's very organic exposition, it's not forced because he has to tell her this shit, and he's gotta tell it to her fast because sh he needs her to believe him, because let's be honest, his story is preposterous. He's not like a crazy person.
SPEAKER_32Right, right. And you get the whole Silverman thing.
SPEAKER_11Why didn't the computer just kill Connor then? Why this elaborate scheme with the Terminator?
SPEAKER_34It had no choice. Their defense grid was smashed. We'd won. Taking out Connor then would make no difference.
SPEAKER_09Is that when you captured the lab complex and found that what is it called?
SPEAKER_14Um displacement equipment?
SPEAKER_34That's right. The Terminator had already gone through. How are you supposed to get back? I can't. Nobody goes home. Nobody else comes through. It's just him and me.
SPEAKER_31You can thank, um, remember we were talking earlier about Dino. Yeah. You can thank Dino and this movie, partially, for Rambo, released a year later. I just read this recently. Okay. Filming for the Terminator was set to begin in early 83 in Toronto, but was halted when producer Dino DiLorente supplied an option in Schwarzenegger's contract that would make him unavailable for up to 10 months while filming Conan the Destroyer. During the waning period, Conan uh Cameron was contracted to write the spec script for the film that would eventually become Rambo First Blood Part 3. Yeah. Thank you, Dino. I mean, because hey, we're gonna be talking about Rambo 2. Anyway, um That screenplay's great.
SPEAKER_32The screen the story for Rambo 2 is awesome. Uh it just is. That's great.
SPEAKER_31That's another one of those movies the first time you see it after so 84. This is the greatest movie of all time. The first time you see Rambo 2 as a kid, you're like, I'm pretty sure this is now the greatest movie of all time. And then when we get to the one, the movie that's number one, at least on my list, you're like, okay, we found the greatest movie of all time. Uh there's another thing I wanted to talk about. This movie does rely on some exceptional, especially for the budget, practical makeup. There is rear and front projection, but there's also some really cool matte work, matte paintings, which they don't do anymore. And there's some really cool stop motion in this film.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, there is Stan Winston, right? Stan Winston.
SPEAKER_31Stan Winston, yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yep. Yeah. And that's how that's I mean, there really was no other way to do it to bring Jim Cameron's vision to life. I mean, that was the option at the time. And now it's pretty easy to pick out, but it's mixed so well. It's almost flawless. It's almost flawless.
SPEAKER_31In 84, absolutely. Now, of course, we have the benefit of hindsight, but at the time. And you know what? You could make the argument that that's why Cameron made T2. Because let's be honest, they're incredibly similar. But he he was so limited with his budget and his time and his resources. I could see why he'd want to give this another shot.
SPEAKER_32Sure. I get it. Absolutely. Yeah. What he would have done, right? What he would have done, exactly.
SPEAKER_31Exactly.
SPEAKER_32Absolutely. Yeah, dude. I can't say enough good things about this. It is coming back. I'll just tell you that. Um, but it's not coming back yet because my number two is what apparently is your number one, 1987's Predator. 18 hours ago, we lost a chopper carrying a cabinet minister in his aid.
SPEAKER_24What do we gotta do? One day operation. You pick up their trailer and chopper, run them down, grab those hostages, and bounce back across the border before anybody knows we were there. Major, you better take a look at this.
SPEAKER_17What happened to you?
SPEAKER_05They were shooting in all directions. Something out there waiting for us.
SPEAKER_32Directed by John McTiernan and written by Jim and John Thomas. Um You're right. It's one of the best movies ever made. I mean, hands down. It's one of the movies.
SPEAKER_29Did you struggle? Did you struggle?
SPEAKER_32Did you struggle with this one as number one? Oh yeah. God, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I just watched it again a couple weeks ago, and man, it is not dated at all. I mean, it is fantastic. By far the best of the Predator movies. I mean, that's not even it's it's a joke to consider any of the other ones.
SPEAKER_29Nothing. There's nothing.
SPEAKER_31By the way, real quickly, you want to do something fun? Take a look, take a look at summer 1987. Wow. Is there a lot that you're yeah, you're I mean, a lot. And remember this, if I'm not mistaken, Robocop comes out right around. It's either it's right before this or right after this. You know, then you had Beverly Hills Cop 2, and you had Space Balls. Summer 87 was super.
SPEAKER_32Oh yeah, it was. Dirty Dancing was that year. That was a huge movie. Kubrick had his headful metal jacket, the Princess Bride was at the Holy shit. Yeah, it's Holy. The Lost Boys? Monster Squad? The Untouchables? Jeez, Louise. Yeah, but this was a standout. This was a standout.
SPEAKER_31Inner Space, Witches of Eastwick, um Yeah, yeah. Rox Roxanne. Oh, there's a Bond movie. We get the first Dalton Bond, Living Daylights.
SPEAKER_32Oh, that's the first Dalton. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_31Don't forget Masters of the Universe, which I was really excited for. And hey, most importantly, a Canon Two-pack. Jaws for the Revenge and Superman 4. Both something.
SPEAKER_32I think I I I think I saw that two-pack at Walmart in that bin in the front. A team of commandos on a mission in a Central American jungle find themselves hunted by an extraterrestrial warrior. And I gotta tell you, man, I do want to read. I want to read this. This is kind of a conglomeration of reviews for this. Uh, reviewers say Predator Stands is a timeless action masterpiece celebrating Stan Winston's iconic creature design. John McTiernan's Masterful Direction and the ensemble cast's outstanding chemistry, led by Schwarzenegger, career best performance. And it might be he's freaking good in this. The film delivers intense suspense and explosive action sequences that remain thrilling decades later. However, some reviewers criticize uneven pacing, that's bullshit, with a slow middle shit. That's bullshit too. And an overlong uh finale. That's bullshit. More bullshit. None of that fuck said all that crap. None of that, none of that's true. That's just crap. No, the the Predator is downright terrifying in this.
SPEAKER_31Is is this the most macho action film of all time?
SPEAKER_32It might be. Dude, it might be.
SPEAKER_31I'm not asking if it's the greatest, because that that could be debated. I do think it's probably top three, but it has to be the most macho action film.
SPEAKER_32No, I I I think it is, dude. All the way from Dylan!
SPEAKER_29You son of a bitch.
SPEAKER_31I was gonna say, I was gonna say, one one of its most memorable scenes is two guys um basically shaking hands in an arm wrestling pose. And it's just it's it's just when you think about it on paper, it's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_32I know, dude.
SPEAKER_29And then you get the close-up.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, and then you got uh Vince Ventura.
SPEAKER_14Victor's dug in like an Alabama tick. You're hit. You're bleeding, man. I ain't got time to bleed.
SPEAKER_31I ain't got time to bleed.
SPEAKER_32Jeez, you ain't got time to bleed, dude. You got Bill Duke who's fantastic in this.
SPEAKER_00You ghost nuts, motherfucker. I don't care who you are back in the world. You give up position one more time. I'll bleed you. Real quiet. Leave you here.
unknownGot that.
SPEAKER_32And and man, I really like the inclusion of Carl Weathers here.
SPEAKER_24Man's losing. We've gotta take them down.
SPEAKER_31Oh, Dylan in some ways makes this. Yeah, he's the perfect he's the perfect foil to well, the predator is the foil, but he's the he's the he's the perfect backup. Um, but this whole team is and don't forget, writer-director Shane Black is in this as Hawkins, and I've read a couple times that he was placed there on set by uh Fox executives um and and producer Joel Silver to keep an eye on a very young uh John McTiernan, if I'm not mistaken, this is only his second movie, I believe. Yeah, really? I think Nomads. Yeah, I think Nomads is his first film, and that was a year ago. This is his second feature? Holy shit. This is just his second movie, and he he would quickly become the greatest action film director of the 1980s. Of course, you could put camera in that list too, but yeah.
SPEAKER_32Dude, so good. This cast, all of them are well fleshed out. You know, they almost feel like real people. Very much so, yeah. And that that makes a difference. That makes a big difference. I'm just really in love with this with this film.
SPEAKER_31This is how I knew this was a big deal. I went to see this with my dad. Uh this is 87, so I'm not even I'm eleven. My dad took me to see this and about five or six of his navy buddies, which had never happened before. So I'm like, uh oh. This is a big deal. And and sure enough, I got out of that movie and and wow.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. There is a great sense of foreboding in it. I mean, there are s it is scary at the beginning. Uh before you know, it really is when they first find that previous team. And I mean that's that's gory and all that's great. But what's really cool is Billy and how spooked he is, and he's running around, he can't make sense of anything. You know, there was a firefight here, but it doesn't make any sense. I can't find a single track. I can't, you know what I mean? He goes on and on. And that that's I like that kind of stuff. Because he's scared.
SPEAKER_31And this big ass macho dude is spooked, and you're like, oh shit, they got a problem.
SPEAKER_32Right. It's played just right. The tone is just perfect. I mean, how can you when you say macho, man, does anything top when um when Ventura gets it, and then Duke runs up and he grabs painless and just starts wailing, just shooting up the forest, and everybody just arrives. No questions asked. Just blasting the shit out of everything. I mean, that is some awesome, awesome stuff, man. I've always loved it.
SPEAKER_31That would seem silly, but here everyone is losing their fucking mind because they know they are fucked.
SPEAKER_32Right.
SPEAKER_31With a capital F.
SPEAKER_32Yep. Yep. Yeah. No, it works. I don't, there's really no false moments in it that I that I that I to me. To me, there's no false moments in it. I I think it's perfect.
SPEAKER_31No, it's perfectly executed. It's a tri a tr it's a it's an awesome blend. It's almost a perfect blend of action, adventure, horror, and and I guess a military thriller, a combat thriller, right? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, dude, dude. Um, anyway, I know this is on your list too. We can we can go ahead and go. Um, but this is your number one, so I guess we're sticking with it, right? What's your number one, Ben? Since you're the expert. Predator. Good choice. Good choice. Yeah, um I there is some interesting things like uh the fact that they had hired Van Damme to play the alien at the beginning. Um little little bit of little bits of trivia like that are kind of clear. Yeah, it is. But the ultimately the design of the predator itself is top-notch. I don't know of another alien design that I like better, to be honest.
SPEAKER_31It's I I hate to say this because, like you said, this cast is exceptional, but this whole movie, this whole movie is solely reliant on getting Kevin Peter Hall's suit right. They don't get the predator right. And by the way, people forget this. That's that's Optimus Prime, Peter Cullen, as the voice of Predator. They don't get that right. This movie is trash. I well, I shouldn't say that. It's not trash, but let's be honest. You have to take it seriously.
SPEAKER_32You've got to take the predator seriously.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, he's a he's he's more important than Schwarzenegger, because if they don't get that right, it just doesn't work. Just does not work.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of Schwarzenegger, he's damn good in this. I mean, he's damn good in this. Um everybody is, but of course he's the focal point. And I mean, he he carries the movie on his shoulders, particularly at the end when he has that long stretch. The whole third act is basically him alone.
SPEAKER_31It's just him. It's just Schwarzenegger, yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, and um, I love that part. All his uh prepping, you know, setting his traps and all that stuff. And he goes, he goes, he goes primitive. He goes primitive. It's like he becomes the predator, right?
SPEAKER_31Oh, when he gets when he gets into the mud and the predator can't see him, and then he becomes he becomes a filthy mess, the right you know what I mean? He's one with the jungle the rest of the movie. It's a brilliant choice.
SPEAKER_34Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_31It then becomes him his his movie. And that's how badass Dutch is, because all of these super testosterone-filled macho machines have all been eliminated, except for Dutch. Well, sorry. Dutch and and Anna.
SPEAKER_32She's still alive. But you certainly you certainly feel the uh the desperation about just how dangerous the predator is. You know? The predator uh is almost invincible in this up until the very end. And I think that's what makes him uh such a great uh sci-fi villain.
SPEAKER_31He's basically um impenetrable. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, he commits suicide at the end. It's never made clear if he was dying or he wanted to make sure that Dutch died too, so he just decided to throw off a warhead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah. I like the fact that he uses Billy's laugh to taunt him. That's great.
SPEAKER_21Yeah.
SPEAKER_32It's incredible. It's an incredible thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_31Turn around, turn around. We should talk about predator vision. It's one of the first times I remember seeing this in a movie, and that's it's still effective. Very simple technique, but very effective.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it's it was uh it was new, and man, did it add something to it, having the POV of the Predator? Um, I agree. Do you are you familiar with the technique? Yes. How how they do it?
SPEAKER_31If I'm not mistaken, that's a optical process, right? That's not in camera. So it's inverting the image, basically camera negative, is that right? Yeah, or no.
SPEAKER_32It I mean, that could be. I assumed that it was some kind of scope that they were using, like a heat vision, like a military tech or something, but that's just an assumption. I have no idea. If it was a post-process, that's even more impressive. You know what I mean? I think it it hold on, let me take a look.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, well, let's just take a look. Let's get that right. I'm really curious. How to achieve here, give me a second. I want to say it might be a combination of both what we just said.
SPEAKER_32Yeah.
SPEAKER_31Because you remember, this was 86, primitive VFX.
SPEAKER_32A long time ago, yeah.
SPEAKER_31Um, you were right. Actually, technically, we were both right. Okay, so to achieve the iconic Predator thermal vision effect, filmmakers in the original 1987 movie used an actual inframetric thermal camera. Then later it was color tinted in post-production to create the distinct um blue, green, and red color palette. Interesting.
SPEAKER_32Interesting. That is interesting because the actual tech probably is only like green tint, like we see night vision, something like that. You know? Yeah. And then they would have had to right. They would have had to do that in post. Okay. Well, it works. It works. I mean, interesting. It's great. Yeah. But it's got it's got everything. It's got that, it's got the great mil when they hit the military base, uh, it's got that kind of action in it, and it's done really well. I mean, it's got that, so that's a great little action sequence there. Uh we find out the double crossing.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, because remember, you know, because keep it keep this in mind. The opening of the film just starts off like a standard rescue mission.
SPEAKER_32I like the fact that they were double-crossed by by Dylan, and Schwarzenegger says, What happened to Dylan?
SPEAKER_16You used to be somebody I could trust. I woke up. Why don't you?
SPEAKER_11Unependable asset.
SPEAKER_24And I used you to get the job done.
SPEAKER_26Got it. I may not have expendable. And I don't do this kind of look.
SPEAKER_31Do you think they came back for for the bodies? Or do you think that they were dismembered? And if they were all dismembered, did Dutch pick up Dylan's arm and take that with him?
SPEAKER_32Uh well, I never thought about it. I know if I was Dutch, I wouldn't go back. No, I I I don't know. That's that's there's no hints there, is there? But uh normally you would say, Oh wait, there can't be, you know, but I I forgot.
SPEAKER_31Uh there's a nuclear bomb that that takes care of that question. That was a hell of a speaking about that. That was now was that a nuclear weapon? Is that what we're supposed to assume?
SPEAKER_32Uh maybe it was their version of it, you know. I mean, it was certainly a cool effect. Remember in the helicopter when they see it, you know, it was really cool. There's some good effects in this. I mean, there really is. There's I don't think there's any weak points in this film. I think it's competent all the way through. More than competent. I think it's exceptional all the way through.
SPEAKER_31And you know why this movie is exceptional and none of the other films work, in my opinion? Simplicity. They just keep expanding and giving us lore that would no one asks for and giving us mythology no one's asking for. This movie works because it's simple. Right. I agree. You go in the jungle, find a monster, the end. Right. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_32Arnold has a few quips in this, not a lot, but I do like his one okay, motherfucker. Stick around. Stick around. Yeah, no, it's cool, dude. Um, yeah, I'm uh I'm I'm happy. I'm also happy that during the closing credits, it does the you know how they used to do back in older movies when you would put a picture of the actor up, you know, on screen and say, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger as Dutch, whatever. The old end titles. I love those. Yeah. So yeah, that was kind of cool. That was kind of cool. Don't do that anymore.
SPEAKER_31I wish they did.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, no, I have no issue at all. This has been your number one. It very well could be my number one as well. However, my number one is going to be a tie. So I don't have to choose. Oh, I know what you're doing here.
SPEAKER_31You sneaky son of a bitch. You sneaky son of a bitch.
SPEAKER_32I do, I don't know how other way to do it. Because every time you ask me that, I'm like, well, Terminator. No, maybe the Terminator 2 is better. I just I just don't know. I just don't know which is better. 84 is Terminator, 92 is Terminator 2. I just no, it's 91, I think. 91's Terminator 2. So your number one is a tie. It's I couldn't do it any other way, man. I could not do it any other way. I like them both for different reasons. Yeah, I do miss Michael Bean in the second one, but gosh, Linda Hamilton really steps up. Robert Patrick is great. The cast is really cool. Um, the story is cool. There's a lot of there's a lot more funny lines in the second one coming from uh Arnold's Terminator, you know. Um and it's basically a boy in his Terminator, right? That's kind of what the story is. Yes. Uh a boy in his terminator.
SPEAKER_29That's a good way to pull it.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. I think that is what it is, you know, and there's just so many cool lines in that film. Like, look, you can't kill anyone, right? And he goes, why? And he goes, because you just can't. Why? Or you or like, geez, you were gonna kill that guy. Of course. I'm a terminator. Yeah.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, he'll live. I love the part when he tries to get him to smile. See, that's the one thing that I do like about the sequel. It does have some, it's got some moments that really make you chuckle. The first film, yeah, none of that shit.
SPEAKER_32No, there's no time for it. There's no time for it, man. The first the pacing in the first movie, man, is just like a like a frickin' freight train, you know. Um, but at least and two has you know, it quiet down. You know, it quiets down, and you get some of that character work, but I don't know which one I prefer. That's why I had to go a tie, man.
SPEAKER_31Well, let me ask you, let me ask you this. Um, if I was to come over and I said, We're gonna watch one of the Terminators right now, what what's your go-to? What's your go? How about this? Here's a here here. Let's I'll do I'll do this a different way. Let's see, let's say someone somebody comes over to your house, someone from a foreign country, and it has never seen a Terminator movie. Which one are you gonna show them?
SPEAKER_32Okay, well, if it's somebody like that, I would show them T2. If you came over, it would be it would be T1. Uh I think we'd have more to discuss on T1, you know, because the because the production, like you can see how things were done, like right on the screen. You know what I mean? Like we could place ourselves there. Uh oh, yeah, 100%. Because we're familiar with how to pull some of that stuff off. So um that's that's that's way I like it. The other one, there's a little bit more fantasy in it, you know, but man, I just can't choose. So that's that's that's that's I think that's might be my final word on these. That's my final one. Which one which one have you seen more? Probably the same. Nah, I've seen Terminator 1 more. I've seen Terminator 2. Because you because you used to watch it over and over again as a kid. Yeah, it's it's not as yeah, it's it's not as big a commitment either. It's a shorter film, it's fast paced, you know. Um Yeah, I could yeah, it's an easy that one's an easy watch, for sure. Um I do have a problem with the way T2 was marketed, because clearly in the marketing, they give away they give away the whole store, you know, because the movie's set up to make you think that Arnold is the old Terminator after to kill him, right? That's the way it's set up to work, you know. But the marketing gave that all away, you know.
SPEAKER_31Which sucks. He's he's very much a hero, and that's see, that's my biggest problem, I think, with the sequel is um he's terrifying in the original film, and you couldn't do that anymore. I mean, Schwarzenegger by 90 by 91, he's a uh he's a he's an icon. He's a hero.
SPEAKER_32He's a hero, right? Yeah, and he's a badass man. When he enters that bar at the beginning and walks in naked, and uh I mean what what a great scene that is. And all you want to see, all you want is to see him tear the place up. We're like on his side immediately, you know?
SPEAKER_31You know what I love about action films? I love let me ask you this. A naked a naked uh Austrian bodybuilder walks into a bar. Are you gonna engage with that guy? No, you're gonna get the fuck out. I don't care how big you are. That's what I love about action films. Why would you mess with something that looked like that? You wouldn't. You wouldn't. You'd leave. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32I need your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle. Yeah. And that guy who puts the cigarette out on his chest, that's the same actor that Bill Paxton kills in in near dark and uh at the bar, you know, and he's like, uh, I hate it when they ain't shaved. It's the same actor.
SPEAKER_31I it's also important to note that Cameron makes the same mistake in the first film. Um you got Brian Thompson, who's incidentally the uh the night slasher in um Cobra. Bill Paxton.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_31And they're they're once again, they're they're trying to fuck with a naked Austr Austrian bodybuilder. You don't do that. But it it's okay, because it's an awesome scene. Wash day tomorrow. Yeah, nothing clean, right? Nothing clean, right? Great scene. Great scene.
SPEAKER_32And he's uh he's much bigger in the original Terminator, you know. He's he's like physical peak, you know. He's super big and bulky and muscular. He's a he's a fucking menace.
SPEAKER_29He's just a menace in that movie. He's terrifying.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, he's trimmed down a little bit by uh 91, but that's not to say he's not in shape and he's still not intimidating. He is.
SPEAKER_31But he's a badass, but yeah, he's not terrifying.
SPEAKER_32Right. Right. Yeah. No, I uh I just can't pick I can't pick between the two. You know, I I like them both. Uh maybe I'll just consider him one long movie. I I guess I could if they if they felt the same, but I guess they don't. I mean, they don't feel the same.
SPEAKER_31You know, so and that and that right there is key. Not at all. The tone is completely different, yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. Yeah. Um, man, there's there's great stunt work. There's great great stunt work in the second movie, that's for sure. Both movies, both movies.
SPEAKER_31But uh Well, and like we and like we said earlier, it feels sometimes like Cameron wanted another shot to get this right because he just I mean, look at a hundred million is a far cry from six. Sure. Far cry.
SPEAKER_32Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I mean Cameron's one of our best directors, you know, one of our best action directors. Um, you know, ever. And he stopped.
SPEAKER_31And he stopped with all these water movies. I just it's too bad.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it's too bad. Because I'm a fan of all of them, man. Uh, from the abyss to, you know, I mean, just there's aliens. I mean, you know, we're not gonna talk about aliens, but I mean, we could. You know, I mean, these he's just he was one of the best. He's one of the best. And I guess he still is, you know, even Titanic. Even I I love Titanic. I'm a I'm a big fan of Titanic. I think it's a great movie.
SPEAKER_31Titanic is it's spectacle, but it's it's it's it's a it's a tremendous undertaking, which is why it's impressive. But you're right, we have not gotten we have not gotten a true action vehicle since true lies. Let's be honest. I mean, yeah, you could make the you could make the the the claim that the avatar pictures are action adventure, but I'm talking about on location, yeah, human actors, no mocap, etc. etc.
SPEAKER_32You almost have to set the avatar movies aside, you know, almost into their own category. Um that's what I do. And I'm not a hater on them either. I I do like them. But uh I just don't consider them the same. There's like a dividing line right before that first avatar. But um did you see T2 in 3D? Did you ever see that short that they played at um Universal Studios there for a while? Yes, um good. It's good.
SPEAKER_31It is very good. Yeah, it's honestly more compelling than some of the sequels, if you want to know the truth.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Um, maybe someday we can go through all the sequels, but um I don't know. We'll see how we feel.
SPEAKER_31Man, we just we just discussed we just discussed two franchises where one franchise, let's be honest, has the one movie, and the second franchise, which is Terminator, has there's moments in three, and there's moments in the Christian Vale film, but honestly, these are there's there's just these two films. That's it. That's the franchise to me.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I agree. I agree. The other ones are something else. But um, hey, you know, the um I don't know, man. I I don't want to leave here without talking about the great highway chase in T2 um with the helicopter.
SPEAKER_29It's incredible.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, I mean, uh there is some stunt work in there that I when that when that helicopter flies under that overpass, like for real, I'm like, holy shit, man.
SPEAKER_31Yeah, it's not CGI. It's incredible, right?
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah. There's some great stuff in that. And and I think he for T1, I think he did he pushed it about as far as he could go with his resources, you know. So I'm glad that he was able to go ahead and realize the fuller version, you know, of it. So because remember they were talking to him about they wanted him to do a sequel. He they wanted him to do T3, and he said there's no story left. And he's right. Right. Terminator's dead.
SPEAKER_31But they wanted to milk that for all it's worth.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. Oh, oh well. Oh well. Well, looking over the looking over the career here, are there any films that uh we left off that you really, really liked but just couldn't squeeze in to this?
SPEAKER_31Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a couple that I really wanted to talk about, but um kind of just here. I the the I I would say that the most the the most important um to me would be 19. Let's see. Uh where do I want to start with this? Um God, there's a couple actually. We did okay, so the ones that we left off were I'm not a huge fan of the comedies. I'm just not. Some of them, they're they have their moments, but just that's not for me. Right. I really wanted to talk about the one film that Schwarzenegger. Did with one of my favorite directors, and I believe one of yours, Walter Hill, 1988's Rick Heat. Yeah. It's a cool flick. Yeah, it's a it's a cool flick. A lot of people. My guess is that most Schwarzenegger fans are that's not making their top 10, but I always liked he's basically Russian Terminator in this. It's it's a pretty paint by the numbers action film, but it's a Walter Hill movie. I did want to talk about that. Um, that's another one that was left off.
SPEAKER_32Um I had Raw Deal on my list for a little while. Um I like Raw Deal. I always have. Yeah. Yeah, but it got bumped off. Um he's kind of charming in that, you know.
SPEAKER_31Uh I was gonna do Batman and Robin just to drive you insane, but it's just a terrible movie. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah. I don't know. I I mean, I I think he was having fun with it, but he was the only thing he was the only person having fun in that movie, you know.
SPEAKER_31But but there's there's quite a few that yeah, go ahead, but I had I had debated um one of the expendivals pictures, too, but those that's an ensemble film. Um yeah, yeah. I think I'd also debated escape plan with with Sylvester Stallone. That's not bad.
SPEAKER_32That's not bad.
SPEAKER_31It's not. It's not. No.
SPEAKER_32Escape plan's pretty good. Um yeah, it's but there's a few on here that I just I don't like. Like I'm not a big fan of the sixth day. I really don't know why I don't like Eraser, but I just I just don't. I I mean it's it's it's okay. It's okay.
SPEAKER_31It's a you know why? I can tell you why. It's just a very 90s action movie. That's why. It just is. Yeah, it it just yeah, it's it's very 90s, it's overlit, and yeah.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, it's fine. I hear you. I hear you. Cool, dude. Well, man, I tell you what, this has been a lot of fun. Um, we're both big Schwarzenegger fans, and he's his body work is pretty substantial. And he's he's done some action, I would consider action classic films, you know. And and then he's done some timeless films, The Terminator, Predator. I mean, these are timeless films, they're gonna be remembered, you know.
SPEAKER_31So he's he's got, let's say, he's got at least okay. So if you and I were to make a list of the 10 greatest action films of all time, he's got at least three.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, he probably has three on there.
SPEAKER_31Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Without question, yeah. You know? One day we'll try to make that list, but we gotta go through all these guys before.
SPEAKER_32Right, right, right. Cool, man. All right. Well, I guess we'll wrap it up. Um, man, oh man, this has been a lot of fun, Ben. Um, I'm just glad I got the expert here to uh, you know, explain explain things to me.
SPEAKER_29Because uh, you know good times as always.
SPEAKER_32All right, I'll talk to you later, buddy.
SPEAKER_31Alrighty, bye-bye.
SPEAKER_32Hey, you know what I saw?
SPEAKER_29Okay.
SPEAKER_32What I went and saw I went and saw Obsession. Have you seen it?
unknownHave you seen it?
SPEAKER_32Loved it. Dude, so good. I I was I was like, it can't live up to the hype that it's getting. I thought the same thing.
SPEAKER_31And it fucking did. It's incredibly uh it's incredibly well written. Very well written.
SPEAKER_32Yeah, yeah, dude. Yeah, I was super impressed. I'm curious to see what this kid does next, because he is a kid.
SPEAKER_31Do you know what he's doing next? I can tell you.
SPEAKER_32Oh, what's he doing next?
SPEAKER_31I don't think this is a good idea, but I picked last action hero on our list. He is doing yet another remake of Chainsaw.
SPEAKER_32Oh, wait a minute. I did see something about that in the dailies or something. Yeah, okay, okay. Yeah, I don't know if that's a good idea either.
SPEAKER_31Uh by the way, speaking of Chainsaw, there is a fantastic documentary about Chainsaw that's unlike any other.